Dr. Caitlin Solone, teacher educator at UCLA, explains what positive behavior supports are, how they're implemented, and how they encourage inclusion in a classroom during this Undivided Learning event.
You can check out the highlights of this event in our recap here. To learn more about positive behavior supports, see our PBIS 101 article.
Jason Lembeck I’m Jason Lembeck, for those who don't know, CEO of Undivided. I'm here today with Lindsay, who heads up our content and community teams at Undivided.
Lindsay Crain
Hello, I’m definitely on the radically inclusive bandwagon. So welcome everybody.
JL
Yeah you’re always sorting the radically inclusive in everything you do, which is one of the reasons I know you're excited for this conversation today, and we’re excited to get your perspective as well as our special guest, who's back for more enlightenment, enlightening us, welcome Dr. Caitlin Solone. Dr. Sloan is a teacher educator and faculty within UCLA’s disability studies department. She's also an inclusion consultant to districts around California, and a sibling to a fierce individual who happens to have CP. Hi, Catie.
Dr. S
Always great to see you. Hi, everybody. It's nice to be back. It's really nice to be back, thanks so much.
LC Welcome back, Dr. Solone. And like Jason said, behavior is unfortunately, it's a lightning rod in inclusion discussions. Many of us grew up with the expectation that kids need to sit quietly for an hour or more during class, have quiet hands and quiet body. And actually Donna if you could shoot in a link, we've actually done an article about this. Maybe you had “listening Larry” when you were growing up, if that sounds familiar. You sit still, you pay attention and you don't distract anyone from being just as quiet. And sadly, this hasn't evolved much in many classrooms around the country. So Dr. Solone, if you can start by explaining how behavior and behavioral intervention should be embraced from an educational perspective. And in other words, tell us how we can culturally shift away from “your childhood has behaviors and shouldn't be in a gen ed class.”
Dr. S
A great way to start off this conversation. Behavior first and foremost should be thought of as communication. And I think that's one thing that people forget really easily. So behavior, any time we do something, we're communicating something, whether it's that we’re fine going about our business doing an activity or engaging with somebody or whether that means that we are leaving a classroom because we are not interested or we find the activity too difficult or challenging. Whatever it is, there's so many other examples too, behavior is communication. So when we're thinking about behavior, we're thinking about what are students communicating, right? But before we even get there, behavior should be set up in a positive way, school-wide. So positive behavior intervention supports, PBIS, is something that many schools have adopted in recent years. And the basis behind PBIS, there’s tons of research behind it, that's where you would set up a school campus with school rules and norms on what is expected of the students. We can’t expect students to know what to do if we haven’t taught them the expectations. And so you set that up as a school wide campus rules, campus expectations. You’ll see them posted around schools, maybe there'll be painted on the walls, “responsible, respectful” things like that are the common ones you see.
First, you do it school-wide, then you look at the classroom. Classrooms should have positive behavior support structures in place at the classroom level as well, things like earning free time minutes as a whole class or earning table points and working as groups to earn things like that. And then at the individual student level, if that's not working, if students are still having difficulty with behavior, then we think about individual level support that we need to put in place. And what also what supports behavior globally is rapport, so we need to think also about how are we building rapport between our staff, or our educators, around our students and between students themselves, because rapport is really huge for students to want to behave in certain ways and certain environments.
So when we're thinking about behavior when we have those things in place, we also want to think about behavior as communication, like I mentioned, so when we're thinking about that, are the student’s basic needs being met? Do they have a communication system in place, right? So often I see students who don't use verbal language, yet they don't have communication systems in place, and that’s huge to be considering. So basic needs, communication system, and then we look at the ABCs of behavior. There's an antecedent, which is what happens before the behavior, or it’s a setting event, something that happened at home, or maybe they're hungry, like we were saying earlier, or maybe they're thirsty or have to go to the bathroom. Or maybe they had an issue on the yard with a peer or something like that. Something happened first, then there’s the behavior that occurs. And then there's a consequence. The consequence can be something that we do intentionally, or it can be something that happens naturally that either reinforces the behavior to continue happening, or helps to reduce the behavior, and helps to make it stop happening so much.
So that's kind of a lot to unpack there. But those are the basic things about behavior that we need to be thinking about and kind of reframing. So rather than the behavior is an individual problem with the child that needs to be fixed, really what's happening on a global level in that child’s environment that we can look at, and then what’s happening on the individual student level that needs to be addressed in a different way than being addressed currently, because we see that that's not working if there is a behavior that’s going on.
JL
One important mind shift for me in there that I never thought about until you said it is that behavior is communication. And, like, even thinking about how I engage with my kids, you know, outside of the classrooms, just an important reminder, I think people talk about behavioral challenges and behavioral issues, but at the core, they're trying to communicate something. This is a pathway of communication, it sounds like you're saying.
Dr. S
Yeah, and it’s usually to get something, they’re communicating that they need something, to try to get something, or to get out of something. Whether that's environment, stimulation or some sensory stuff going on, whatever it is. So there are four basic functions of behavior that students communicate through their behaviors. They want to escape from an environment or an activity or an individual, or they either want to get attention from somebody or get away from attention. They want something tangible, maybe it's an iPad, maybe it’s a fidget, maybe it’s something tangible they want to have, or there’s a sensory reason. They’re communicating, for example, that the environment is too loud so I need to elope from the noise that’s over-stimulating.
LC
I just have to say that that's a statement, just “behavior is a form of communication,” that I constantly repeat to my team during IEPs, you know, during conversations. And it isn't that people aren't open to hearing that, but behavior is almost a dirty word. So when that's brought up the conversation, looking at the reasons why, then it’s that jump to these behaviors are happening, so we need to look at the why, which we'll get into as well. It’s a really simple statement, well it’s complex, but that is really the foundational root of everything we'll be talking about today and that parents should hang onto and take to their teams.
JL
I mean, there's so much work on changing the culture around how a classroom, around how a school, how the team surrounding a child can operate in an inclusive way, and given the challenges that parents are facing, it can be difficult to envision how their neurodiverse child can thrive in the classroom experience. They’re not allowed to function in a way that's healthy for them. So how can, I know you're fully aware in the context of the challenges, how can parents overcome kind of these understandable hesitations they might have in being reinforced in some cases by the doubts that are laid down by the IEP teams, either implicitly or explicitly sometimes.
Dr. S
That's a great question. I think we have to get away from this notion that classrooms should be what we typically conceive them to be, so all students are sitting in their desk quietly with their hands folded in their lap. Their eyes are on the teacher and they're engaged and listening, right? That is no longer what classrooms look like, nor is it the best classroom structure or environment for students to learn in. So once we can get away from the perception that that is what the classroom should be like, then we can be more open and flexible with how we can imagine classrooms being and how classrooms that are inclusive really are.
14:50 Behavior is not a prerequisite for inclusion, and we oftentimes don't know how a student's going to respond behaviorally in an inclusive classroom until we try it. And so just because a student has certain behaviors in one setting doesn't always mean that it's going to transfer over to the next.
15:12 Even if it does, that’s usually okay. Classrooms are starting to become more adaptable. They’re not all like that. Some of them are that traditional type of classroom, but in reality, that is not how the majority of people learn best. So I teach in higher education. I can tell you that my class of 128 students are really excited when they hear that they can come to class and engage standing up, sitting down, bring fidgets, and a lot of them are really excited by that because they are neuro diverse, some of them, and do prefer to stand up and stim or have a fidget with them. I’ve been in so many classrooms that are inclusive classrooms that have people standing up, walking out for breaks using fidgets, laying on the floor, and these aren't just students who have IEPs, you know, in the general education population as well.
JL
That resonates for sure, I mean, it's like I mean, obviously, at a broader level, there's an understanding and a push towards personalization in learning, and this is a manifestation of the different ways you're going to engage and communicate in your environment to have to take off kind of the ableist lens is critical. It starts for ourselves, but also for working with the team to be open and more flexible in how to engage.
Dr. S
You’re going to get a variety of teachers that you interact with, right? So it's not to say that all of yours will be ready to be ready for that.
LC
Catie, something you've probably seen, that I know that we've seen, some parents because of that reinforcement, a lot of people around them say your child can't be in this classroom. There's almost, they almost feel guilty, right? Sort of like I don't want my child to disrupt anyone, I don't want to impose, and it isn't that they're apologizing for their child, they're not, but they're uncomfortable with the notion because it's not a classroom that's set up for that, it's not a philosophy that's obviously being practiced the way that it should be so, is there anything you want to say to those parents who are really nervous about it? It doesn't feel like it's a welcome move for their child.
Dr. S
Yeah, and those nerves are valid and understandable given the comments and the messaging that many parents do get. It’s very understandable why parents would feel that way. I have worked on campuses where a big concern has been behavior, and when it comes down to it, you're asking teachers, okay. Tell us about the behavior you're experiencing and which students with IEPs are having those types of behaviors exhibiting in the class, what it comes down to is they're actually not the students with IEPs that are having more serious behaviors that they’re concerned about, it’s actually students who don't have IEPs who have experienced stuff going on at home or what have you. So keeping in mind that it's not just students who have disabilities, who have IEPs, that exhibit challenging behaviors in the classroom can sometimes be a helpful frame for parents to understand that their child may need extra support in a classroom, even if it's just their child that needs extra support in the classroom, the student has a right to be in those spaces. And again, we don't know how to respond in certain spaces until we try.
LC
And behaviors can reduce, and frequently do reduce, in inclusive classrooms.
Dr. S
Very much so. When you have an inclusive classroom, all these great role models in the classroom. And once you figured out the function, you can put supportive systems in place, then yeah, the behaviors do reduce. Sometimes it takes a lot of patience, it can take months. Sometimes it takes a couple days, and sometimes it takes weeks, you really don't know.
The important thing to remember is that, you know, if we don't try, then we’re going to stay where we are and not move forward, and maybe students will not have the opportunities or experiences that they have a right to have.
LC
I’m sure there are parents listening who are so eager to embrace everything that you just said, but they still need to understand how they can functionally make this work. And so many times behaviors don't manifest in healthy ways. And so one mom wrote us ahead of time and summed up I think a lot of common concerns and she wrote, “My child is 12 with Down Syndrome and needs a lot of support and redirection with many of his behaviors. He’s currently in a special class. My question is how can my child possibly be mainstreamed with so many behaviors, getting out of a seat, eloping, saying inappropriate things, and having tantrums when transitioning to a non preferred activity? Please help a desperate mom trying to do what's best for my child.”
So let's talk about what supports need to be in place for this child and all children to make classrooms successful, positive, and safe learning environments. So what do we do?
Dr. S
The first thing that comes to my mind is wondering in that environment the child’s in currently, what’s going on in that environment and what supports are in place there, but again, behavior is not a prerequisite for inclusion. Oftentimes, like I mentioned earlier we do see behaviors that may be pressing in an SDC setting, oftentimes reduced in a general education setting. Students might feel more seen, they might feel more valued, they might feel like they have higher expectations, which could have been part of the reason why certain behaviors are existing in an SDC class or in another environment. So before thinking about anything, thinking about what are they communicating? If the student is eloping, when and why are they eloping? Is it everyday during writing? What are the reasons why the student is exhibiting those behaviors, what are they communicating by them, and what’s being done in that current environment to support that? To me, I think about it more holistically, right? I don't think about it in terms of like this is just happening in the SDC classroom and so how can we possible mainstream. I think about it as who is this child and what do they need to thrive? Do they have a communication system? What are the things that they need to feel supported in any environment that they’re in? Regardless, it doesn't really matter what environment they're in. What matters is that their needs are being met. So what are those needs? How can we really dig in and see what the student’s communicating and what can we implement so that there's a system in place so the student can get their needs met in a more pro social way rather than by way of these types of behaviors that they’re exhibiting.
LC
So what are some of the supports that any classroom, generally for this, you know, for this student for all students, what are some of the, you know, the essentials that need to be built into this classroom for behavior specifically?
Dr. S
Yeah, so I would see if there’s a positive behavior support system in place in that classroom. Do they have class-wide rules that they're expected to follow, and do the students know what those rules are and know what they look like and know how to be exhibiting that they're following those rules? And then are there different ways that students are reinforced in the classroom that are positive? Are the students recognized when they're following the rules when they're doing what they're supposed to be doing? However that may look. Are the students reinforced in small groups and individually and do they work collectively together as a class? And I would question If those things aren't set up, then does the student have an individual plan in place that's set up to address one or two of the most pervasive challenging behaviors? You wouldn't want to necessarily address all of them, but what are one or two that you can address really specifically that can support that child? Then as you address those, you have a good strong system in place and reframe the way that's on that people on the IEP team see behavior, and you start to notice that the adults start to also pick up on the different communicative attempts that the student is having that look like behaviors that are undesirable, but actually are communication. And then the adult who are supporting that child can then step in and start to change their own behavior to adapt to the child's behavior.
So you don't always need a behavior plan and a behavior support system for every single undesirable behavior that you're trying to reduce, if that makes sense.
JL
I love that. I heard potentially a three step plan there of assess the child needs, what they're trying to communicate, assess the rules and expectations in the classroom environment.
And then start with one, maybe two of the most significant behaviors, and kind of taking that playbook, I think it would be helpful for us to just step through each of these for this particular parent, the recommendation would be pick the top one or two, but I know a lot of parents listening in are gonna have two or three of these or more on their mind. And so if we can take one at a time, like I know every child is different, but some ideas on supports for each, that'd be great. So let’s get started with what do you do if someone wants to walk around the classroom?
Dr. S
Yeah, so if a child prefers to walk around the classroom, if the PBIS positive behavior supports are in place, then the child would know when is a good time to get up and walk around the classroom and when is it really important to be sitting. They would know when it would be totally fine for them to get up, walk around, meander, and when they would be in their seat, whatever type of seat that is. There would be a system in place, perhaps they might earn something or whether it's just high five and fist bumps and eye contact and thumbs up, reinforcement for staying in seat when it's most appropriate and then giving them the “okay you sat in your seat during that allotment of time, you can go now.” So really setting it up so that it’s a strategic way to reinforce the desired behavior. When we reinforce the desired behavior, we get more of that, and as we honor the child's needs, so getting up and walking around, and use that as a way for the student to get that once they've done that desired behavior, then we can start to see an increase in the desired behaviors and decrease in that eloping when it's not appropriate.
But a big thing to consider too, we don't ask as parents, as people who aren’t actually in the classroom, don't always have the ability to shift the mindsets of the people who are leading the classrooms, right. So if a teacher doesn't feel like it's appropriate to be walking around a classroom when they're teaching, you know, having conversations about that with the teacher could be important. If my child really needs to stand up during these times, when is it appropriate, when would feel most comfortable to you and most likely to not interfere with your teaching? Just having those candid conversations.
JL
That's great. Actually, Sherry just shared a great point along these lines, like what are the things to assess? When we're talking about standing and sitting is what are they sitting in? And she shared that her her son uses a yoga ball, which helps, right.
LC
So does my daughter, Sherry.
Dr. S
More classrooms are starting to adopt these different tools, and if your classroom doesn't have it, then asking teachers if they mind if you bring it in is a totally acceptable thing to do. Sitting on yoga balls, they have yoga ball seats now, so some have like a back to them now.
LC
We have one, we got one for distance learning. It’s awesome. So it's like a chair. So if your child doesn't have the core strength, maybe, I don't either, to sit on a yoga ball all day.
Dr. S
They have wiggle cushions now. There are standing desks. So if the child would prefer to stand and listen, that can be an option too. And there's so many adaptable ways for students to engage in classrooms these days, which we never had before, which is really exciting, and also brings up another really important component of behavior which is choice. Giving students the autonomy to choose how they're going to engage goes such a long way, right? So do you want to sit in a yoga ball chair, or do you want to sit in a regular chair, or do you want to stand? Giving these choices, especially if they're structured choices that you know is going to work for the teacher, giving that choice alone goes such a long way of demonstrating the respect we have for our students and give students the autonomy and the power to have some type of control over their learning environment.
LC
But I also think a really important point, everything you just said, is it’s not all or nothing, right? It's not “You need to sit quietly and don’t move and say nothing.” And it's also not “Guess what, you can wander around the entire time because that's what makes you feel good,” right? Like it's about really having that plan in place and working with a child, say, alright, like, you know, if we can get to this point, then you can stand up and really, you know, priming them, setting up those expectations, and creating a situation that works for students, teacher, and everyone else in the class as well, which is easier said than done sometimes. But I love everything you said. And the choice piece is obviously really key. And for every child that there shouldn't be an expectation that they learn or prefer or can learn in the same way that every other child does. And so another, kind of thinking about some other really common behaviors, so what if a student vocalizes frequently throughout a class. So what would some good supports or scenarios be?
Dr. S
I think so many classrooms and times when we were kids make vocalizations, and other students who are around don't seem to notice, you know, after they get used to it, they don't seem to notice. It doesn't seem to be a distraction. But if students are making really loud vocalizations, or it is intrusive to the ability to teach because it's so loud that it is difficult to focus, then figuring out what are the vocalizations? Is there a replacement behavior that would be just as satisfying for the student? If they did that instead of making the vocalizations, does the student need to know what they can do the vocalization, when it's an appropriate time and when it's not appropriate time? What we don't want to do is we don't want to prevent kids from engaging in behaviors like stim behaviors that soothe a part of them that they need to have soothed in that moment. Like we don't want to say okay, you can't vocalize in the class, right? Because then a student might start doing another behavior that's more damaging for themselves, right. For example, if a student's not able to vocalize, maybe they adapt by biting their cheek, and then maybe they are starting to harm themselves. We don't want them to do that. Right. We don't want to, and here's a fine line, but it's really figuring out what is the cause of that? If it’s a stim, then is there a replacement behavior that can be done? Can we just talk to the student candidly, regardless of what disability they have, and just share “Hey, it’s a little bit hard, I totally understand that you need to make a vocalization, but while the teacher is talking if we could make them quieter, let's practice doing a whisper vocalization or something like that.” So the student knows that you honor that they may need to do that. You recognize it, there's nothing wrong with it, but if there’s a way to work with the student together and figure out a better time to do it or something else they could do instead, then perhaps we could see that reduce. And you know, it's interesting, I see students in some classrooms where they feel really respected by the future and have a really great relationship who in other classrooms will make a lot of vocalizations, in those classrooms make far fewer, and so it is also really important to understand the different contexts that you see those behaviors in. And maybe it's because the student’s feeling extra anxious in a certain setting. Is there a way that we can reduce whatever it is that's causing extra anxiety? It's really hard, and every student is different. So it's really hard unless you really take a deep dive into what's going on.
LC
And if you need to take a break, write it in your IEP. I mean, my daughter I'm sure a lot of a lot of your kids, you know, listening it’s same thing for teachers, like if things get to be too much, and she knows and guess what, she's not going to, you know, lose control or really kind of melt down in a class if she knows that she can get out, there's a courtyard she can go and she can just, you know, she can breathe, and then you know, regulate and come back in. And that, you know, that's, you know, a very common thing to be in a behavior plan and something that should be discussed with the team if your kid needs that.
Dr. S
Breaks are great. Inclusive classrooms look like students leaving on breaks and coming back, and it's not that students should be out of the classroom all day by any means, but breaks are perfectly acceptable and we all take them too.
LC
We need them, everybody needs them. Take a break challenge that we have in our Facebook group, right.
JL
It sounds like Carrie has an accommodation in this frame: frequent movement breaks. She agrees. What if the words are inappropriate? What's anything on top of what you’ve shared?
Dr. S
Yeah, that's a tricky one that does actually come up quite a lot. So if the words are inappropriate, then it's really getting into what is the function of that, is the student trying to get attention from their peers. They see that if they yell s-h-i-t really loud that all their peers turn around and laugh. Well then that's a good indicator that the student wants their peers’ attention, right? So if we can give the student better ways to get their peers' attention, because they seem to really like that, then we can start to see that behavior reduce. So usually, in those cases, it's twofold. It's give them a replacement way to get that really powerful attention they're seeking, while also reinforcing the reduction of saying profanity.
LC
That's also a common technique by many children to get attention, by the way, as anyone who’s been to middle school knows. I think another really common question that we had from parents was, you know, when there's a non preferred activity, and they really, you know, they they refuse to engage, maybe loudly or they have big reactions to these non preferred activities.
Dr. S
Yeah, if it's a non preferred activity and again, you can ask what is the child communicating about this non preferred activity other than just that it's not preferred, right? Is it because they don't have the tools they need to engage in the activity? Is it because the activity is too difficult or they perceive it to be too difficult? Is it because the activity is too easy? What I see a lot of times with kids with disabilities is that oftentimes they'll feel like it's too easy. So they're getting work that they've gotten every single year or that is way too easy for their intellect, and it's not challenging enough. And you see these big behaviors. The opposite is also true. So too challenging. Maybe it's a student who has dyslexia, maybe it's a student who has difficulty sustaining attention and so writing comes up, or maybe it's like the actual physical action of writing is difficult. We see these types of behaviors. So the key is to figure out what is it?And oftentimes it's really helpful regardless of what disability your child has to just have a candid conversation with them about it. Students are really tuned in. Even if they don't use verbal language to speak, if you can have these conversations with them to validate how they might be feeling, to recognize that you see them, you see that they're communicating to you. So then it also shows them that you are trying to problem solve with them. And that what they're communicating is being heard, right.
So even just telling a student, “Hey, I see that every day during writing or math or whatever it is, it seems like you don't wanna engage in this activity, or it seems like you don't want to be here for the lesson. Is it because you think it's too easy for you?” Give them a way to respond. “Is it because you think it's too hard? Would you rather tell me and I'll write it for you or tell the computer and dictate, or would you rather write it with this pencil or this crayon?” Have that time to really break it down with the student to problem solve and you’ll find oftentimes you'll come to a solution that actually does work.
LC
I have to throw out an example for this. You know, everyday we were hearing “Your daughter didn't want to do math and she's refusing to do her math, she doesn’t like math” and we were really trying to like figure out what that was. And after, you know, digging in with my daughter who is not going to just say yep, this is why, right. You know, she just got angry every time we asked about it, you know, and then when we really started pushing it, we realized that she was being forced to write her name on the top of every assignment. Writing is not a preferred or easy activity for my daughter. And so that is when that she's starting with with every assignment or you're asking her to like write a word next to how many apples there are and it becomes a writing assignment, and it wasn't about the math. We had to like get it back there. So again, it came back to it was an inappropriate assignment. And also frequently inaccessible, like vision if your child has any vision issues, and they're getting all those cute little Pinterest worksheets that they can't see or they can't even see the problems through all of the cute little drawings, you know, they're not even going to jump into that. So it really is trying to whittle it down, talk to them, communicate, and then just keep trying different things to see what might flip the coin for that.
Dr. S
And for students who use communication devices or alternate ways to communicate, giving them a way to communicate that there's something else they need, or, you know, it's not on here. Like it's not on my communication device, but there's something else they want to say. So giving them a way to communicate that something's not working for them. It also brings up a really good point about how important it is to start teaching self-advocacy skills at a young age. So what I mean by self-advocacy skills is teaching students to be able to start identifying what it is that works for them and what they need, and give them the tools that they need to advocate that, whether it is a simple button on their iPad communication device, or it’s a little thing cut out at the top of their desk that says I need help, or there’s something else I need, can go a long way.
LC
It's always a good goal to have for your child, right, self-advocacy. Again, person-centered, strength-based self-advocacy to be able to really communicate what they need in a way where they can then get what they need.
JL
I want to circle back to something you said earlier, just to bring this to life, which is that we talked through several scenarios that we're all familiar with and may have challenges in getting the school team on board for supporting our child and giving them these tools. But back to your earlier point, picking one area, thinking about a small step, at least from our vantage point, right, but thinking about a small step, you can go to the team and say “Hey, let’s work some choices in this situation,” or “Let's let's work on a different seating situation here. Let's come up with breaks.” Pick one thing and then have success together. First, importantly, for the child and the teacher and the team that can build momentum towards building out more of these important supports and environment ultimately where the child can thrive. I know in the chat people have been throwing in a bunch of great ideas of building off of what you're saying and sharing their experiences. So one area we haven't really touched on much in terms of support systems are aides, and obviously this can be an essential support element in the area of inclusion, but it can also be misused, right? And so just because an aide is present doesn't mean the child is being supported properly. What roles should classroom and 1:1 aides take on for behavioral intervention in inclusive classrooms?
Dr. S
It depends on what type of aide, and there are many different kinds of aides, right? And right here we’re talking about 1:1 aides. There are different types of 1:1 aides. Behavioral aides, aides from the district, aides that are consulted out. All of those types of aides have the capacity, if they are 1:1 aides, to implement a behavior support system for a student. They shouldn't be the ones creating it, that’s the teacher’s role. Both the gen ed teachers and the special education teachers, that’s their role is to set it up and identify what the needs are, with the support of the aide because the aide’s there all the time, tuning in and checking with the aide is going to give you a lot of information. The teacher is ultimately going to set it up, along with if you have a psychologist doing behavior evaluation or something like that, or the behaviorist that come in, and those will be part of the team setting of the behavioral supports. But the aides are there to implement those supports and implement them with fidelity, which means implementing them accurately in alignment with the behavior support plan. That's oftentimes what parents tend to need to follow up with more regularly than you would think necessary.
So thinking about making sure that whatever the behavior plan says to do is what’s actually being implemented. But aides are such a great support because they can be the one providing reinforcement, giving the students a heads up. “Remember, in this time during writing, remember you can ask for help, you can dictate it, rather than write it or remember, you can stand up instead of sit down for writing.”
The 1:1 aides are really there to implement those behavior support systems. And I know parents don’t always have access to sharing information with aides, which can make it tricky, but sending in notes or sending in really simple information for the aide to see can be helpful about your child's likes and dislikes, or even just simple ways to communicate with your child that you know works better than others. Right? So if your child doesn't respond well to directive, like sit in your seat, get out your paper, take out your pencil, if that's triggering for a child, then giving alternatives to that, so the aides are there to implement those things and there really can make just a world of difference when you have an aide who has that rapport with your child and also can follow that behavior support plan and also is intuitive around what else might be going on. Yeah, so that is their role in any classroom.
LC
We have a vision statement template that really talks about, that we created with Dr. Solone, that that really talks about what works for your child, what doesn't, that can probably be really personalized for communication that you can give to a new aide once you start working with them. Donna, can you find that link and throw it in the chat window? Also communication logs, right? You can use that for teachers, use that with an aide, sometimes teacher has to sign off and that's great, but that's another good way to communicate like what's working, how did that morning, what are they walking in to that school day with. Hopefully you can still communicate and not upset the school, and there was something else that you mentioned that I also wanted to just have you clarify a little bit about peer mentoring and support, which is a huge component again of inclusive classes. I know I can say personally we’ve seen tremendous results with inclusion with that component, so can you talk a little bit about how that should look?
Dr. S
Yeah, peer supports can either be natural or intentional, so they can happen organically, and just tend to gravitate toward students, others naturally support them and it’s this beautiful flow, but they can also be set up intentionally by the teachers with the support of the aides, where students who don’t have IEPs or even students who do have IEPs are set up so that they can support students who might need more support in certain areas. They can help with things like self-regulation, social skills, even academics, communication, and what we often find that when there’s a peer that’s in that role and it’s kind of mutually beneficial, students respond so much better when it’s a peer than when it’s an adult, and that makes sense, right? If it’s a peer that's supporting you with your homework or with your work or reminding you to take a deep breath, that can be very different than if there's an adult right next to you that might be stigmatizing, that might make you feel like why am I the one that needs this extra support, whatever it is. So those peer supports go a long way and are really beautiful. And one thing that I think is often lost is reminding that while some students take on that role naturally and it's organic, other students need support, if that's a role that that they're taking on, in terms of how to engage effectively, respectfully, not in a paternalistic way where they're acting like the child's mother or the aide right. It really should be this mutually beneficial relationship that's reciprocal. Where both students are receiving from each other. It's not just one sided.
LC
And teachers can really help identify those kids, like even in the beginning they can look and see where organically those relationships are forming, they can really help. That's what's happened in our case. They identified somebody has already gravitated, being cool, and all the things you just said, and I feel like it's been an amazing year, like and all I can ever do is like when there's a public performance and I get to see that, like because I’m obviously not in the classroom but when I can see that come alive. It's been really an incredible thing.
JL
You touched on this Catie, but Sherry says it can be tricky not to have the child be the mothering style, right, ways to support but also coach I guess.
Dr. P Yeah, it does take additional coaching because that can be the tendency. And it’s beautiful too to watch because it’s really sweet. But at the same time it needs to be a reciprocal relationship. So it does take coaching, and it does take an adult, the 1:1 aide that’s there all the time really knowing how to bring out the students’ strengths as a benefit toward the other student and really figuring out, okay, what can both students offer each other so it's not just one sided, and then also being able to step in during those times as the adult to interject and intervene if it’s becoming too mothering a relationship so, you know, just posing questions like, “Oh, that's really great, I bet Johnny can do it on his own.” Or “Check out this cool thing Johnny drew, isn’t that neat? Do you want him to teach you how to draw that or show you how he did that?” Different ways to interject and model that it isn’t one-sided, that the student doesn’t need all the help in the world but what they can offer to the relationship.
JL
I want to do a quick shout out to the community and everybody sharing on this front. This would be a good topic in the Facebook group and then we can do some research on peer support, best practices, success stories because I think everybody would want that. So great to share, Lindsay, your story and Catie, your perspective on how to bring this to life for our kids in the classroom.
LC
Yeah, I would love to get that conversation going because we’ve had both the organic and the intentional. And then with that intentional, it's now becoming more organic, which is really awesome. I also wanted to really quickly go back, there was a question about aides, and again, this is something that we might want to get follow-up from an advocate but if the school district won't allow any exchange with aides, how can you go about it? I will say when this happened a long time ago I asked to see the school board policy where we weren't allowed to talk to our aides, of which there was none, and then we worked out a situation where we could talk to the aide as long as it was like in the classroom after class or a teacher was there, something they were comfortable with, but that’s a part of the culture and it’s actually not a policy. So that is something that you can ask about and follow up on. That was just my quick answer because I’ve had personal experience. But if anyone else has experienced that, like throw it in the chat. I’d love to see what people say and we can get a more formal answer to that as well.
Dr. S
Yeah, that is a common tendency and issue that does arise, and all around legal matters.
JL
Just to that point, you know, is it part of a school district policy because of privacy, or is it cultural, or…?
Dr. S
Sometimes it’s messaging that comes from the school or the district's attorneys. So the district attorneys say you may not be doing this, maybe to stop, and we'll put that cap on. I don't know if it's written anywhere in policy, but that's from my experience where it has come from. There are definite, like you said earlier, workarounds and things like having daily logs as part of your behavior support plan as a way of communicating with parents because usually in the behavior support plan it also asks how this information can be communicated between the school and parent, and you can decide how you want that communicated. And if there's a way you want your aide to be linked in with the communication, the IEP is is a great place for that. So I would recommend writing in the IEP so that it's in there in a way that the school is comfortable with. Whether there's a log that has to be reviewed and by the teacher at the end of each day, whatever it may mean. But communication between the aides and parents is such a valuable component. If there's a way we can write it into an IEP, where we can come to an agreement with the school on how to do communication, that would be ideal.
JL
There’s a request for daily log samples, so we'll pull something together and share that in the Facebook group. I know we're running short on time, so we have time for a couple more questions. We’ve talked a lot about things that work, and you’ve shared some great tips and tools. But we also want to touch on some of the old-school classroom behavior management techniques. Sticker charts that give kids a red, yellow, or green for the day. Do those have a place today's classroom?
Dr. S Are they in today's classrooms? Unfortunately, yes, you do still see them in some classrooms definitely. Should they still be in some classrooms? From what the research says in my perspective, absolutely not.
LC
Publicly shaming? You mean that we shouldn't do that to children or anyone? Wow!
JL
Yeah, would you want to come home from work and have this red, yellow, green?
Dr. S
I can’t even imagine. Does that encourage you to want to do better tomorrow? Or do you just kind of throw your hands in the air? I think that is an issue we’re starting to see in classrooms because if some good has come out of all this COVID stuff, I would have to say that humanizing our individual human experiences is one thing that’s come out of it. So recognizing that we're all human beings going through all sorts of stuff and we don't know what each of us are going through. And I've seen that definitely transfer over to classrooms too.
But yeah, those should not be in existence any longer, and principals know that too, so if you’re seeing that in your classroom I would bring it up the with the teacher, and if it’s not received well, I would bring it up with your principal.
LC
I know there's some follow up questions that we're seeing about rewards and what to do sort of after that, if they're still refusing, and I do feel like we're talking a lot about the classroom, how we set up the classroom and when we get to those individual questions, I feel like we definitely need to have the follow up events and also talk to a behaviorist to really get into some of those you know, real details. So we see those questions, we're definitely keeping note and knew we would probably need a part two of this and we will, and I love the questions. Keep them coming. So we're gonna get to another question and then we want Dr. Solone to sort of cap us out with something pretty special. But it is sometimes, you know, whatever we're talking about, it's difficult to advocate in an IEP when we're hearing these things are happening, yet we as parents, we aren’t in the classroom to see how and why and you know, you touched on the antecedent. And some of those questions we can ask, but what questions do we really need to ask like, if we're having issues, what could we go and do tomorrow and sit down with our team? What are some of the things that we can ask and assess if the proper supports are in place for our child? We're hearing all these things that, you know, could happen, and what do we really need to go in and say, you know, if we have questions, if we have concerns, what are some things we can do tomorrow to start trying to get our kid on a better path?
Dr. S
Really great question, I would say just keep reinforcing these questions around what is my child communicating with this behavior? What is the function? Do I know what the function of the behavior is? Like if you're getting messaging that says Johnny is still hitting every day. Come back with Do you know what the function is, you know, when he's communicating when he’s hitting? Have you figured that out? What supports are in place to reduce the rate of hitting, right? Really start to continue to ask those questions, so it starts to reframe, for the adults hearing the question, their own perception and their own kind of framework for understanding behavior, rather than “Oh, here we go again.” It's really “Okay. Well, what is it that they're communicating? What is it that's going on? And what needs to be in place to reduce that behavior and increase the benefit?” So keep asking. If your child does not have a behavior support plan in their IEP, yet you are constantly getting informed about behaviors, then I would ask that you have an amendment for your IEP so that a behavior support plan can be put in place.
If there's behavior that's been happening for a pretty sustained period of time and your IEP team has been putting supports in place and nothing's working, “nothing's working,” then really asking the IEP team if it's a good time to have a functional behavior analysis/assessment completed so that they can really understand what is the function going on. Especially if they're pretty serious behaviors that are harmful for themselves or others, then we really need to understand what kind of broad base of understanding is not working and not telling us what it is. If we really can't figure it out as a team, then we need to do a full assessment and figure that out.
JL
So we have one more special thing we want to do. This is one of my favorite things we've done in the past with you, Dr. Solone. She leads us through a visualization exercise, in this case around the power of inclusion. Now some of you might be getting a little squeamish right about now, what’s this woo-woo visualization stuff? But buckle up for a couple of minutes here with us because this touchy feely stuff actually works. I was once a cynic and now I'm all in. I love doing these. So she's gonna guide us here on a one to two minute little breather. So relax, close your eyes if you want. She'll be bringing to life everything we've discussed today as we visualize what classrooms should look like in an inclusive and strength-based world.
Dr. S No matter where you're sitting, if you're driving, don't close your eyes. But if you're sitting down comfortably, sit down to be pressing flat on the ground. Sitting up with your back straight. Your hands can be facing up or on your knees, and just take a moment to go in yourself. Take a deep breath in your nose.
Let it out through your mouth. Another big breath in through your nose, let it out through your mouth. You can gently close your eyes if you feel comfortable doing that. Take another big breath in through your nose, out through your mouth. Visualize your child beaming, just radiating joy. Now I want you to visualize the classroom, four walls, their classroom popping up all around them. Visualize your child still radiating joy in the classroom. The four walls are up. You look towards the front of the classroom and you see the teacher grateful to have your child in their classroom. You see the teacher grateful for the gift of having such a dynamic, inclusive classroom. You see peers next to your child. You turn to your child. You see them grinning ear to ear, you see them engaging in some kind of project collectively together. Now you see the teacher walking over to you. They come closer and they pull you aside. The teacher comments on the progress your child's made and how important your child has been to that classroom and that community. They’ve been invaluable, the teacher says, and the teacher shares that they've learned so much too.
Take a big breath in through your nose. Out through your mouth. Next you see the aide walk up. They were behind you, you just didn’t see them. If your child has an aide, the aide comes closer to the group your child is working with. If your child doesn't have an aide, the aide circulates in the classroom thumbs up, answers questions. If your child does have an aide, the aide is circulating the group but standing back because they don't need too much from that adult. The adult bends down to check in with the child just to see if they’ve got everything they need or to reinforce. Then they stand up and rotate around that group again. You stand back at the corner of the classroom like a fly on the wall.
You see students collectively working in groups. It’s not a silent classroom, not your traditional classroom, but it’s a joyful classroom. It's a classroom that’s learning, not just about academics but about life and about engaging with their peers in a way that is supportive, in a way that really meets all of their social and emotional needs. Big breath in through your nose, out through your mouth. You start to notice the seats in the classroom. They’re all different. There are some traditional desks, standing desks, there are some balls, some wiggle cushions. You realize how flexible education has become and how much that's supported all students.
You see a student leave the classroom with an adult to go on a break. You see a student working in a group while flapping their hands as if they’re totally accepted for who they are, not a care in the world if people are stimming or have different needs than others. You tune into your heart. Feel your heart expand. Feel your heart warm and filled with gratitude because you know your child is also surrounded by love and gratitude. Now take a big breath in through your nose and out through your mouth. Then the last big breath in through your nose and out through your mouth, remembering that you can return to that vision any time you need to. Start to wiggle your toes and your fingers, and whenever you’re ready, open your eyes.
JL
Hopefully people were able to engage in that because it's so heartwarming and eye opening and Dr. Solone I just can't thank you enough for what you bring in terms of your unbending vision towards a more inclusive world for our kids, more inclusive classroom. But then also practical tips. I mean, we know many situations we're far from that vision, but we have the practical tips that you've given us to move towards that and to see it's possible, to see that the steps we can take to help our child, help the classroom, and help our community become more inclusive. I just can't thank you enough for your work and for taking the time to share here with us today.
Dr. S
Thanks for having me, and I also want to encourage parents to really take on that Facebook page and share examples of things that have worked or any supports they may need from other parents because the more examples that people have access to, the more we can learn. So I really really encourage that community practice of sharing, even if it's you know, help figuring out with the function of this behavior is.
LC
Definitely. Thank you for saying that because it’s frequently from other parents that I learned as well. You know, sometimes we have something so stuck in our head and looking at our own child that it's hard to kind of step out and see other things. So yes, so we're going to definitely continue these conversations. Thank you for getting them started. Always. You know some of the things that you always say that resonates with me right, that behavior is communication. Your child doesn't have to earn their way into gen ed, and they don't have to be trained for inclusion or anything else. So we will definitely be continuing these conversations. So always thank you for for leading us and taking us to better places.
Our goal with these conversations each week is to bring some modified attention to the matters to you. And more broadly, our mission is to provide guidance and support to families as they navigate their options.
