Unite and Conquer: Our Lessons Learned From the Kindergarten IEP

Undivided Parent and Navigator duo Isabelle Smith and Kelly Hatfield talk about how they worked together to advocate for inclusion with supports, language immersion, and retention. Isabelle shares how her advocacy affected her daughter’s kindergarten experience.

Watch the video above, listen to our full conversation in this episode of the Undivided Voices podcast, or read a recap of the highlights!

For further reading on the transition to kindergarten, check out Making the Transition to Kindergarten with an IEP.

Lindsay Crain: Hey everybody, welcome to Undivided Live Memorial Day edition. Who here is prepping for their child's kindergarten IEP? I mean, how are you feeling? Prepared, nervous, ready to roll, maybe a little overwhelmed? Let us know in the chat, and just know that everyone here that you can see on the screen, and everyone watching completely relates, and we're here today to learn from each other, because hearing how other parents get things done, I know that that's gotten me by for the last 12 years, and I love talking to specialists, but you all parents, you're my compass, Lina is my north star, and you're all helping me get there, and I know that's how everyone feels, which is why I'm so excited for our guests today. Two rock star moms who are making things happen because they believe in their kids and all kids. So, we talked to one mom who pushed right through that we don't do that and replied with, well, now you have, and thankfully she didn't have to do it alone. She had a secret weapon, which came in handy, because kindergarten IEPs can be terrifying. Throw in a request for inclusion, language immersion, a district transfer, and eventually retention. Oh, and don't forget the very uninvited COVID kindergarten, and they're still standing. They're still standing here with us today. So, let's meet them and talk about how they conquered kindergarten. Hi, I'm Lindsay Crain, and I had the content and community teams at Undivided. Today, we welcome one of our first Undivided parents, Isabelle. She is Undivided OG, and her fellow mom and Undivided Navigator, Kelly. Isabel graduated with a degree in specialized education in Canada, and worked in the mental health field. She's now a stay-at-home mom sprinkled with subbing as a TA at a French preschool. She has two daughters, and her youngest has Down syndrome. We hear she, she loves singing, right? Right, as well, she loves singing and strength training. So, in other words, don't mess with Mama. So, well, Isabelle, we're so happy to have you here today.

Isabelle: Thanks for having me.

Lindsay: Course, and also with us is that secret weapon that I mentioned earlier, Isabelle's Undivided Navigator, Kelly. Kelly has two children with IEPs and was an educational therapist and special education teacher for 17 years before becoming our lead navigator. She lives for supporting families. If anyone's about Kelly, they know this is true. She lives for supporting families and helping them achieve their goals. Welcome back, Kelly. Always good to see you.

Kelly: Thanks for having me back.

Lindsay: Course, also with you today in the chat, as usual, we have our community manager, Donna, and another one of our incredible navigators, Iris. They're going to be passing along your questions to us, we're going to get to as many as we can, and if you still have questions after our chat, or if you want one to one support, our undivided navigators, like Kelly and Iris, would love to help. And at the end of our talk today, we're going to share a sneak peek of one of Kelly's Boost calls. So this is where our navigators connect with families like Isabel and start tackling whatever is top of mind for parents. You can check out the link that Donna shared in the chat. It tells you all about our free kickstart and how our navigators can support you exactly where you are. And we're actually going to hear about that right now, firsthand, from Isabel and Kelly. They're going to share the most important things that you need to know, so you can rock your kiddos Kinder IEP. All right, Isabelle, so we know how nerve-wracking it can be sending off our babies to the great unknown they call kindergarten. So, I want to first talk about your journey, because it has a lot of common touch points for parents, and then we'll get into your top tips for the IEP. So, to start, what were your priorities for Amelia?

Isabelle: So, for me the most important thing was that she be included in a typical classroom with her typical peers. I also wanted her to be part of the French immersion program that my oldest daughter already was going to. She was in second grade at the time, so same school as my as her sister, inclusion in the French immersion program, because that school at that time also had an English program, which is no longer, but back then there was an English program as well.

Lindsay: And why was inclusion important to you?

Isabelle: I always knew, for like the younger grades, kinder, first grade, that I wanted her to be included, because I fully believe that was the best choice for her. I considered other options, I talked to other parents with kids with special needs, you know, Down syndrome, and that I couldn't see any con in sending her to be fully included, knowing her abilities on social. She was just, I just believed that that was the best option for her. I had no doubt for Kinder that I wanted her to be included with typical peers, the typical peers, modeling for her, that was important for me, that for her to have that, and also for typical kids, I think, is a gift to them to have kids in their classroom that are not typical, you know, whatever you wanted to find, how you wanted to find that, because the world that we live in as all kinds of people, so I'm like, it's a gift to Amelia to see you guys as exempt. But it's also for them, you want that, then you tell you want that in your class, you know,

Lindsay: of course, and not a far, you know, most people could relate to the fact that you would like for your children to maybe go to the same school and obviously be a part of your culture and your language, and it's it's hard to wrap our heads around the fact that that's something that actually has a process, right? You have to go through a process for many reasons, and I think is is also an important part that I kind of, in your intro, or in the intro, hinted at, but your preferred school was out of district, which can be especially tricky with an IEP. So, did did you receive pushback based on Amelia's disability for that transfer?

Isabelle: Yeah, I did, and I mean Emily was already kind of set up in our home district, so it would have been easy. Also, this district is like more inclusive, I feel like, and there was, but the other reasons where I wanted Amelia at that school overweight, like that was just more important to me than keeping her in the home district, transferring district to start with, even in, you know, it's paperwork, so that's always that part that's kind of a bummer, but I did call the principal, you know, like the spring before to say that my intention were to, for a man to go to the school, and I think when I had the phone calls with the principal and the vice principal, and they were like, oh, that's a terrible idea, that's gonna be so hard, you know? You know, an immersion program, and, my, as you know, your daughter's speech delay, that will, that will be really hard. That was basically, are you sure, like, as if I came up with that idea that morning, and then I called, like, as if I hadn't put it. I'm like, "Oh, I never thought about a speech, actually. And when I did after that is looked online and found a couple, a few studies about how actually for kids to learn another language with speech delays could actually be very beneficial. I printed it out, dropped it off at the school. Just wanted to show that I did my, my work, my homework, but yeah, it wasn't that, was the first, that was the first thing, it was like it's a bad idea, and I think it was shortly after that, that I met Kelly in person for the first time, because I was taken back, and also I didn't know, I just didn't know if it was legal for them just to say she can't, it's too hard, like I just didn't know, I thought I knew, but I didn't know when I was put in the situation. It was, it was difficult to hear that, right?

Lindsay: And so it sounds like you, the two of you, met at a perfect time, because the permit was granted, right? Like that, which was a huge hurdle cleared, and I don't know, Kelly, you want to say anything about that, but I, you didn't automatically like sail into the school of your choice after you got the permit, right? I mean, there is something like, where did you land first, and why? I don't know, Kelly, if you wanted to add anything about the permit, but then I would love to hear, then like what happened after that was granted, and you know it wasn't just this perfect landing.

Kelly: Oh, I think with a permit it can be tricky, and what Isabel did that was was great, as she worked with the person who sort of oversaw that at her home district, really guided her through the steps to make sure that all of her bases were covered. The school that she wanted to permit into was a lot, was a lottery school, so she did make sure she did the, did all the steps in order to enter the lottery. We had thought, and also like the school website kind of said siblings have preference. We didn't think it would be very challenging to get into the program because there was a sibling there. And then Isabel can talk more about what happened with that piece, but she did end up getting a spot in the preferred school, however not into the preferred program. So that was a, that was a big hurdle.

Lindsay: What do you want to add about that? Why, why did you not land in the program, Isabel?

Isabelle: Right, you know the truth is still siblings have preference, and I was told they basically like you tell them the year before, my intention is for the sibling to go in and save the spot for you. That's what that's what I've seen practice, practice that the spot was safe, siblings high priority, but by the time I got all my permits, like the permit out of my district into this district, I was, I don't know, maybe a few days past the deadline, but I already told them, save a spot for my kid, so by the time it was all said and done, my papers were in, they're like, oh, actually the kinder is full, so we have to put in the English program, and then she'll be first on the wait list to go in if and when a spot opens, you know, it's very, it's a very demanding school. Lots of people want to go to that school, they might not be a spot, but you know, you're first on the list, and the kin, the program for kinder, the English side of the school, which is a little bit neglected at the time, actually had TKK in first grade in one class with one teacher.

Lindsay: That's gen ed, right?

Isabelle: Yes, one teacher with over 20 kids with, you know, TKK in first grade, the teacher has to teach all three, one teacher, no eight, and then Amalia in the mix, you know. Yeah, so that's where they placed her, so you know it's like I got my permit and she was in, but it's not what I wanted, that's not - I was not gonna just let it rest and have her in this not ideal placement to be polite. Yeah,

Lindsay: I think there's another big piece of that when you say there's no aids, but there was an aid. There's an embedded aid written in Amelia's IEP. So, so, how did.. how did that get solved?

Isabelle: Yeah, Kelly, you want to say something about that?

Kelly: So, I think that's why we didn't really have a fight. The new district didn't try to put her into a segregated classroom. They put her right into gen ed, and I think that's because the prior district, the way the IEP was set up was that she would be in general education with an embedded aid, and that particular district does do, they are moving to be fully inclusive, so they're trying to get all of this, the special education kids in the general ed classes with an embedded aid, so the kinder, the TKK first grade class technically had an aide, but there were a lot of challenges with the aid that the district had hired, where she was absent a lot, the kindergarten teacher, or the teacher, like, preferred not to have anybody in the classroom, or not to have an aide in the classroom, and it was just really acrimonious, so but but she did end up getting parent volunteers to become her aides, and that was one of the, I think, really great that Isabelle was able to do that. She was basically able to be Amelia, her daughter's one to one aide for the time that she was in that classroom.

Lindsay: Okay, I have to ask you about this, Amelia, because my first reaction is like, oh my, of course, like you shouldn't have to do that, right, forever, as we all know. And then the second reaction, which I mentioned to you before, is I can't believe they let you in. Well, I guess this is a gen ed classroom, right, because you know my daughter was in special ed classrooms, so I watched, you know, my friends, they always were volunteering and going into the gen ed classrooms, and like, we were not there, were like no volunteers allowed in the special ed classrooms. It's like, we don't need that, right? They didn't, which did not help with transparency or anything else. But I mean, how did you respond when they're like.. and, and I've never heard a teacher say they don't need an aide, but.. but how did you respond by saying, "Great, I will be, I will be with Amelia, and what, what did you see in the classroom?

Isabelle: Well, to be honest, it wasn't planned that I was going to stay as long as I did. I noticed the first few days I had negative report about Amelia, and I, you know, I had an intuition that when I met the teacher in person, I was like, this is going to be interesting right away from her interaction with the kids, little TKK, first grade, the way she was. I was like, that's gonna be interesting. So I had that, but then I had the first day, I had some negative things told to me, and then the second day, and then I felt like I don't know if she's safe, I don't know if you know the teacher didn't seem to pay attention too much to any kids anyway, so I decided to, like, I'm like, it's okay if I stay a couple hours this morning, and then the following day I'll hang out, and then she seemed to be very happy about that, so I said, "Hey, do you mind? Am I like invading your space? Can I be here? And she's like, "Oh my god, I love parents volunteer, you can come anytime. So then I'm like, "I'm coming every day on sale that you say on self. feel like she.. I just couldn't.. I couldn't, you know. And thank God I'm a stay-at-home mom, and that's always been my priority, is you know, to be with the kids, whatever they need. And Amaya is still.. you know, she just started Kinder, so I wanted to be there as much for her as I could. I didn't.. I ended up being there for like three, four months, full time morning to like the whole day, but I didn't plan it, but it happened every.. I was like, I'm going back, I'm going back, because there was not the proper support, so I'll be the support, and you know that's my joy, really. I didn't see that it was.. it worked out that the tissue was so welcoming to parent energy.

Kelly: We asked for an FBA, a functional behavioral assessment, because it was clear that she was going to need more support than what her prior district had had had assessed for her, so we also, we kind of had to wait for that, that process to go through, right?

Isabelle: Because when, when you transfer from a different district, you bring your IEP with you, they have to follow it by law, whatever it says, but sometimes there's the tools, the services are different, so they do the best they can, but they didn't have, like, an embedded aid the same as our home district, so they were, so that we had an amendment IEP in the fall to, like, to then kind of adjust to the new district, that's when we got the, we had the FBA, but that took a long, you know, it's like it takes a long time to get the everything in the place, you know, so in the meantime we were just in that placement, and I was there with Amalia and helping her and the other kids as much as I could.

Lindsay: Well, and my reaction to that is that you're getting negative reports, yet nothing was in place to support Amelia. So, how, you know, that you're, you're, you're getting reports about, you know, something not working with her in that classroom, yet she was not given any chance to succeed, because wasn't there even a. Circumstance where they lost her for a couple minutes.

Isabelle: Yeah, well, my oldest was she's a couple of years older than her. She's like, you know, Emilia was sitting in the, you know, recess area, the playground area by herself for the longest time. Check her class wasn't there. There was no adult there. I'm like, wait, what? Like, you know, it's the fall is like 90 degrees outside. Amalia hates the sun. She probably doesn't even know where to go, because she's not super good at being oriented, and it's a big school, it's a big courtyard, but that happened actually more than once, where they didn't know, and she was turning a loop, she was just get distracted, walk away, and nobody would notice, because it was one teacher for 20 plus kids that were, you know, so you know, there was, yeah, and it just didn't seem like I could not be there, I had to be there.

Lindsay: Yes, right, Kelly.

Kelly: Sorry, safety, like she needed to make sure her daughter was safe, and she didn't feel like the way that school was set up would keep her safe, right?

Isabelle: And the thing is, I know, I know that there was no, that with the proper support, just a little bit of attention, you know. At that point, I didn't, I didn't think it was possible, the one on one right away. I knew it was going to take a while, so I'm like, just so I just, she just needs, even if it's a teacher who pays attention and looks up at the classroom, because that actually it was bad. So, you know, I'm like, with the proper support, a little bit, she agreed, she just has nothing, she's left to, you know, it just was a bad situation, you know.

Lindsay: Yeah, kindergarten, right? Yeah, and they still need a little direction in kindergarten.

Isabelle: There was chicken necklace, quite a handful, like seven or eight cheat case, too, that were super needy. They needed a hug, they needed to go the bathroom more, they needed all the things that little kids need, when they're, you know, and so it was like a multifaceted issue, yeah.

Lindsay: And so obviously the appropriate supports were not in place to support Amelia's success. So Kelly, you did make some recommendations that would help Amelia and her teacher, and I'm sure the entire class. But do you want to share?

Kelly: Oh, yeah. So this was my, like, beginning, like, Isabel's one of my OG clients. This is when we're just starting with Undivided with Special X at the time, and my experience as a teacher and a therapist was, was not in, not, not really with kids that had more significant support needs. So we actually consulted with an educational therapist, and she was amazing, and she came out to the school and observed Amelia in class, wrote up this really comprehensive, fantastic report. Like, here's what I saw, here's what's not working, here's, here's what's working. I don't know if there was anything actually that was working, but here are my recommendations. These, these are her accommodations that are not being followed. These need to be added to the IEP. It was really fantastic to have that. I, and I learned so much from, from the educational therapist, and I think that was really, was really helpful to sort of figure out, like, okay, these are the tools that she really needs to be successful. Let's make sure they're implemented, like Isabel had to be the one to do all of the implementation of those, but they're very helpful, right?

Lindsay: And was was the teacher receptive to that support?

Isabelle: Yeah, she.. I want to ask, you know, I asked her first if I could have someone come observe Amalia. I really made it about Amalia, which it was. I didn't say you're a sucky teacher. Can I have someone come like witness this, please? You know, I was like, 'Hey, Amelia, I feel like we need.. I need help. As you know, it's my first time for her being in an include, so I made it about her. So, yeah, she was.. she was very.. she's like, 'Sure. And as a principal, everybody was okay with her coming for a day, and then we were able to use that report, which helped me immediately, you know, implying, you know, like I put some tools for me, visual schedules and things like that, that I share with the therapist that she was seeing, you know, at on the school grounds, but then I was able to bring that report when we had that amendment IEP, we brought it with him at MMIP, right, Kelly, we brought that to show

Kelly: Yeah, I think we got everything added, and I think it was very clear, and this, I think, helped get us, well, potentially into the French side, maybe more quickly, but I think it was very clear that the teacher was not a good match for Amelia at all, like it was, she sat in the meeting, she didn't say anything, like we would directly, like, try to talk to her. She just, she wouldn't, she wouldn't speak, like you could tell she was very uncomfortable. And we just wanted to, we were trying to be really collaborative and open, and she just was completely shut down. So, it is very clear that here, this is what this child needs to be successful, and the teacher was not really open to it, like she was okay if somebody else was doing it, but she wasn't really doing herself, right?

Isabelle: Yeah, I mean, it's a very unique situation, because I've never met a teacher that was so detached. So, I mean, even with even typical parents, typical parents of typical kids were like, what is going on? It was very, so it just really, it was probably the worst placement she could have gotten, like, to be honest, but it's just kind of a lot. The luck we had, but you know, we learned in the process, and you know that teacher now is working somewhere else. I'm not sure, but it was interesting to see, she.. there was no hope for the implement any of these tools, because she was not a present teacher, even with typical kids, you know. So, yeah, yeah. Well,

Lindsay: I mean, How did you.. this is a really important thing, especially for new parents to think about too, because how did you stay collaborative? I mean, when things were a mess, your daughter wasn't getting what was in her IEP, she was in a temporary placement that was pretty terrible by all accounts, and you were possibly getting lied to about, you know, a full program. So how did you stay level headed, and like, and build up Amelia's team.

Isabelle: You know, I just initially I was just obviously thinking it one day at a time, believing that there was a spot that she was going to be the first one ever spot open, but then I got some insight from like some other parents that were like, Isabel, there is room in the Kinder class, like the parents that were in the kinder class, could see there was three kids that never, you know, they ended up not coming to that school with their empty desks, because there's like, there's at least three or four spots, you know. And then I had another therapist, I was like, I think you should probably go see the principal and bring it back up that you want her. So I still ask more questions, and also I actually, I did ask the principal, like, this class needs an aid, you know, not just for my kid. This class is not appropriate for any kid, but it was.. I was typically told, "Well, IEP is coming up, we can bring all that up, whatever. You know, that was there was no immediate solution, and they couldn't do anything about the aid. I think if I knew from the beginning that it was going to take three months and I was going to be pushed aside and lied to. Literally, I would have probably not been able to handle it appropriately, but I, because I, you know, I didn't know what was ahead of me. I stick it one day at a time, and eventually I start to be a little bit more vocal. And then I, then I'm like, I'm making the point when the principal, I was very angry, I got my anger out, you know, talking about it through my husband, and then I said, I need to meet, I mean to meet with you, because I had heard these things about having, there was room, and all that. So, but to make a long story short, by the time the appointment was scheduled and happened, we had had the IEP, we had had, I think, FB was complete, and he was like, "Oh, actually, I wanted to meet with you, because one on one was approved, that she can start Monday. That was like a Wednesday or something, and I'm like, so I think the only question I said, so tell me why there was room, and I was told that it was a wait list, and there was no wait list, really, there was room, and he said, well, we were just waiting to see if she was going to be granted like the support that she needed, you could have told me that I might have even understood if you told me that, instead of saying there's no room where there is room.

Lindsay: Completely lying and waiting, and really like almost seems like waiting for you to say something, right? Like waiting to really, you know, bring it to the table and say, all right, like, now, now, what?

Isabelle: Right, right. I should have said something earlier, probably. Honestly, like, I guess I was always kind of trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, be hopeful, thinking, no, people don't like, do that on purpose, right?

Kelly: We trusted the school, we trusted what they were telling us, yeah, we really have a reason not to trust until you got the inside information from the other French kindergarten parents, and then we had a whole list of things that we felt were inappropriate in the current placement, like, because remember we were gonna like go and meet about this, like these are happening that are just really inappropriate, and that was when he was like, "Oh, yeah, nope, there's a spot you want to start Monday."

Isabelle: Yeah, it wasn't, and then even after the placement was, she finally started the other class, then other things were revealed, like there was, there was another kid right below her on that wait list that did not, since she, I was told Emma was the first one on the list. The principal couldn't put any other kid before her, because I would have noticed, and I would have said, 'Wait, wait, wait, wait. So they were basically holding a couple other kids from that French father they wanted, because they couldn't do it without, you know. So then that was revealed, because the data, and I was placed in that immersion class, that actually the other boy that was also moved up to that class, I knew him, his mom really well, she like, I just got a cough from the school, he got a spot, I'm like, wait, today he was like, literally 20 minutes after my meeting, her son was also moved, so it revealed that they were actually holding back, there was no way, yes, why, suddenly there's two spots, those spots were available all along, you know. I tried to.. I was okay. These people don't know, maybe this principle has never had someone with Down syndrome. I'm trying to, like, I was just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, just not, you know, assume the worst. So that's what kind of kept me going, really hoping people, I guess. Well, and.

Lindsay: You know, our IEP teams, we could be with them for years, and so it's.. it is a really difficult balance to be collaborative. You're trying to build this team, yet fiercely advocating for your child, especially when you know it's like, okay, someone's lying, this is.. you know, something's not computing, but now, okay, we're moving to that placement, so it's.. it's.. I guess I will talk to my own in my own internal conversation with.. in my head is always like, all right, is it time to go nuclear? Am I like, you know what point? Like, what it's hard when you're making progress, it's like, okay, here we go.. like, let's go to the moves.. the next step, we're moving forward. I'm still, I'm not, you know, giving things up or making sure she has what she needs, like, let's, let's keep going. But it's, it's a really hard balance, and for your kindergarten year, which is sadly not, not uncommon. But did you want to say something else about that?

Isabelle: I was just thinking that's an excellent point, that I mean, obviously, as a mom, I literally wanted to, like, I wanted to show my anger, and, like, show ads. I'm not gonna let you walk all over us, you know? I wanted to be very inside, that's what. But, like, you just said, this is a team. I don't know how many years we'll be at that school. My oldest daughter's also at that school has been since kinder. Also, so what kept me from going nuclear like that is I those people, I need to keep him on my side, not in manipulative kind of way, but just this is the team, this principle doesn't go anywhere, these people don't go anywhere, I need to like show that I'm on top of things, like I will not be walked all over, but also I want, I'm not, I'm gonna control my emotion, I'm gonna work with you, even if I disagree. You have to make it work, because then, if you be.. if you know you're in their bad books, you know, on the wrong side, then it's hard. It just.. it's not beneficial in the long term. The anchor sounds really fun, and, like, let me tell you, know, in the moment, but, like, long term, that might not be the best way to go about things, right? Right, and I guess for any situation, right, never, never call angry, never, but you know, you never know what's gonna happen. There's a lot of emotions in IEP meetings, but you have to try to just, you're right, to just kind of let me get angry, because you deserve to be very angry, but like, then let's make a plan, right? Like, be angry, but let's have a plan to make sure Amelia is getting what she needs, and the fact that this request was, you know, finally it was finally granted, right?

Lindsay: So this magical transfer, so then did they have were all of best practices for inclusion set up ready to go as soon as Amelia moved into her new classroom?

Isabelle: Oh yeah, it was so good, it was crazy. It was perfect. After that, that's it. The life is over, you know. The one news, I mean, the initial teacher, the teacher that she was faced with, was really welcoming, and we're like, I'm so glad I messed in my class. I'm looking forward to working with her. It was like really good lip service. It was actually followed through, but the actual, the following teacher in the French placement was, they were really, they were not equipped, like the teachers I had never had a kid with dancer in my class. They didn't know, they were not equipped, they didn't have any tools, but they had like a really good attitude. They were super ready, they wanted, they told me, like I've been wondering why she wasn't in my class all along, because I knew her sister, I didn't know why I wanted her in my class. So they were super welcoming. They prepared the kids by showing kids like little Down syndrome video about Down syndrome, and talked to them about how she might be a little different, like so we felt really welcome. That was a huge piece of just being happy with that. And then the other thing, you know, a week after she transferred, the one on one started, and then you know, I had the, I had the tools that were given to me, so that I could bring that, you know, with the new, the new one on one, she had tools like, you know, visual schedules, and all these things, so then it was much better from that point on, it was, you know, night and day, really, it was nightin day, and you know it's interesting, because I was told, remembering that now, like shortly, you know, within the first month everyone noticed her attitude, and my attitude, you know, getting better, you know, in different ways, like, you know, and not that she's as huge behavior, but you know, she doesn't like walk long distance, and the kinder class is really far from other things in the school, so, but the fact that she was had the right support made a difference. Who knew?

Lindsay: And we can't say this enough, and you know all the time, just keep everybody needs to remind themselves that behavior is a form of communication, and obviously Amelia was communicating, you know, in that first class. This is not okay, right? This is not being set up in a way that I'm comfortable with. Probably every kid was reacting the same way, and so it's.. it's amazing that you felt that reception and that openness and that excitement to have her in their class, which they should, but were things were.. was her work or was the class.. did they have. Have modifications or adaptations that would make it universally acceptable or accessible for all the kids in the class, including Amelia.

Lindsay: Obviously, if you're asking if they added modification, well, yeah, was was the work adapted for her? Was it appropriate, or was she getting the same as everyone else, whether it worked for her or not?

Isabelle: You know, I think that it's still that way. I don't think that teachers do much to accommodate. They kind of give what they give to everyone, including Emilia. I think the one on one is very instrumental in making it accessible for Amalia. So, you know, I know that the one on one does that. I mean, there was things like, you know, she was writing with a binder, so it was tilted, and she was writing with, like, Emma hates pencils because it's not dark enough, so she needs red or black. So they did little things like that, but the class, it's.. I found it's funny, the most challenging piece. One of the most is that the class work, the teachers don't actually.. maybe it's just our school, but they don't actually accommodate the work still to this day, so the one on one, I think, does it, and then me, when it comes to homework, I'm the one who does it, you know, at home,

Lindsay: right, which important to.. I'm sorry, go ahead, Kelly.

Kelly: Well, the kindergarten level work, I think, was appropriate for her, like I think she was ready, she had some kindergarten readiness skills going into kindergarten, so I think.. I think that was.. so I think part of it was like the kindergarten level work was good for her, now that she's in first grade, heading into second grade, where the, the, the academics are more challenging, she's, she's not up, you know, she's, she's below grade level, so now it's, it's much more apparent that her work needs to be modified and accommodated, and I, we don't think that that's happening.

Isabelle: Yeah, that's really good point. Kinder was, yeah, you're right, Kinder was things that she's already good at tracing and all that, like initial, you know, letter recognition. We have first grade, between first grade and kinder, it's a big, big difference, a big jump. Yeah, so now it is showing more, that's good point.

Lindsay: Yeah, well, and also for any of you kinder parents, or you know, if you have young kids, inclusion again, we'll say this over and over, but the point is not that your kid is supposed to keep up, that's not inclusion, right, that's mainstreaming, and if somebody says, oh, well, you know, your child isn't at grade level, that has nothing to do with inclusion, and things obviously should be adapted and modified. We all know what should be. We know what's happening. We know what we're pushing for. We know what we're trying to work out is a very hard cultural shift, but again, it's this completely false expectation that has been normalized by segregated educational systems, and that, that's no judgment on where you choose your placement to be for your child, it's that the system is doing it wrong, because it's, it's been done that way. Yeah, and I know. Sorry, go ahead, Isabel.

Isabelle: No, I said, that's something I became super apparent in first grade, is that the general education teachers, are they always speak about that gap, you know, like she doesn't meet grade levels. We need to bring her up to enough. That's not my goal. I don't, I mean, I will never meet degree levels, but she's making progress, you know, and she's learning skills, social skills, all kinds of skills. So I'm happy, I'm not so.. but I think they think about, oh, we need to bridge that gap, that gap is gonna go wide, and are you sure you know, like, she needs to meet up at grade level? No, she doesn't, that's not my goal. But I think gen ed teachers are really ingrained, like they need to meet the grade levels, grade levels, grade levels, right?

Lindsay: It's true, and we have to just keep repeating, like, and for the kids that can, absolutely, like, there's plenty of kids that should be closing the gap that aren't being met, and then there's kids that that aren't going to. My daughter's the same way, right? The gap isn't going to close. It doesn't mean that she can't benefit from a standards-based education that's made accessible to her, right? And that's what, though, they haven't heard that, they haven't seen that, and that's the conversation that you know, we all need to keep having more than conversation and advocacy as well to go along with that, and I do want to touch on the socialization piece, and in just a minute, because it's very important. But a question that we get from lots of parents, and we actually received this from a lot of parents before the event with their RSVPs, was pushing like services. Did you, did you, did Amelia get push-in or pull-out services, and what sort of went into that decision between the two of you, thinking about the IEP? What did you choose, or were you given a choice, or was it a conversation?

Isabelle: Not given a choice very much. It's mostly pull out, you know, and there's a lot of pull out again is that balance, she needs those services, like she needs it's great for her, she gets a one on one attention, but also then she's being obviously pulled out of her classroom with all of her peers, so she spends that much time out, so there's a lot of, I would say, actually, right now the only pull in is recreational therapy initially. Was that even was full out, and now I think that they're trying to push in and just do it with the other kids, but it's, it's basically all even APE is like she's pulled out away from the PE class to do our own, you know, so any, you know, yeah, it's I think I brought that up at the last IEP, like there's so much pull out, you know, like, but the genetic shows are, but that's what she needs. That's where she gets the education that she needs, is with the fly. Yeah, but you know, so I don't know. I don't know the answer. I think she probably has too much fly. We'll see what our triennial IEP is next week. We'll see.

Kelly: We can ask for more, more push in. I think the tricky part too is that half the day is in French and the special education services are in English, so like I think scheduling would be really hard. They could probably could only push in during the English language portion of the day. Want to also bring up Iris made a great point about the inclusion specialist being needed, that's something that we're going to ask about in the IEP meeting next week, because it hasn't really been like she has had some inclusion help with the resource teacher, and then there's the behavioral, the behavioral interventionist has been helping with that, but I think we need more, so need to figure out, so we're gonna, we'll be asking about that, right?

Isabelle: And I don't know, I think I feel like I did not know that it was available in our district, the inclusion specialist, but last couple weeks ago, and I had a psych evaluation in preparation for the IEP, and someone there on site, like, you should probably ask for an inclusion specialist, you can, you just have to ask if I won't offer, you know, I feel like the IEP, IEP team has been good at offering things that I like, you know, last one they offered that recreational therapist. I didn't know. I was like, you're offering me sure. So, I don't know. I know it seems like at first, and then first we're going to second grade, that inclusion specialist would really be a piece we need to add.

Lindsay: Yeah, I would love to hear if any parents have ever had that offered at an IEP from a district. I mean, I, you know, I have never heard that actually offered, right? It's not offered on staff. Oh, you know, people that have for public schools.

Isabelle: No, I was gonna say I'm shocked that it's.. I shouldn't be shocked, but I would think that it's been offered, but maybe it's not. Maybe parents always have to ask. I mean, I don't know.

Lindsay: Because an inclusion specialist is going to come and say, well, of course, your daughter should be able to get push-in services, because all we have to do, all we have to do, like it's easy, but it's, you know, redesign how the teacher is teaching this class and make sure that it's built around all kids, you know, especially considering kids with an IEP first, and that's, you know, not something that a lot of teams want to hear in a meeting, because it's, it's a lot of work, and it's a huge cultural shift, but that is our right as a parent to bring that up, right, to make sure that she is getting the support she needs, and if they don't know how to properly do that, then someone can be brought in to do that, and I did want to definitely ask about the socialization, you know, was Amelia comfortable, and how, how did the kids react to her disability?

Isabelle: You know, it's, it's because of another, you know, she has global delays, so even socially she's, you know, delayed in those things. So, like, in her first year of kinder, she was not super interested in, like, she was kind of okay being on her own, playing with her hair, you know, she needed that, the help, a little push to go play with her friends, but now in first grade she's doing really great socially. She loves her French and knows all their names. She's, you know, plan a little play dates with them. She'll come back home and say, "I have a play date with so and so, we're gonna watch a movie and have popcorn, and we're gonna watch thing, and I'm like, "Oh, okay. She's playing these things, you know. Even yesterday, I picked up a fifth grader, is like, "Hey, yeah, Emman was playing baseball with us. I don't really know how in what context she was in the same recess as the fifth grader, but she likes to play baseball with us in the back in the back of what her daddy. She was playing baseball with the older kids, and they're like, she's really good, and like, when I hear things like that to me, because I want a man to feel like she belongs, I want her to tell me she has friends, and she's planning play dates. To me, that's more important, if anything, than the academic piece. So she's doing really great. I mean, from what I'm told by all the teachers, and you know, the people that are in the school, that she's doing really great. You know, and if ever she, like, when I asked her if she had lunch with anyone, as by herself, that was her choice, because meal times are very important to me. She loves her food, so she's like, I don't eat friends at lunchtime, but focus, I got my chicken nuggets here, people. But she's, she's doing really great. She's doing, I feel like she's doing great socially. She's playing, she's not so much Pearl playing anymore. She's really involved, and she's, she's doing great socially. Yeah,

Lindsay: It's awesome, and I mean, so you know, here she's, she's making friends, she's moving along, you know, suboptimal education because of lack, lack of accessibility, but she has an eight, that's not you, she's making progress, and it doesn't matter, you know, if it's not at the rate of her peers, and so there's these great gains, and you, but you. Requested Amelia repeat kindergarten, so why did you feel that was necessary, and what happened when you asked? Because I know a lot of families, that's the year they choose to ask for retention, and so what happened, and why did you choose that, and what happened?

Isabelle: Right, there were so many factors. First of all, Amelia is a late August birthday, so she started kinder at four years old, which I finally, maybe, maybe I should have held her back one more year, but I didn't, so she started young in a really terrible placement for three months, and then when she was finally transferred to the placement we wanted, it was just a few weeks before Christmas break, which I think that year was like a whole month with that district, came back for a month and a half or two, and then Covid happened, so we're like, you know, and you know, they were told we were told, "Don't ask for it for attention, because every kid had a bad year with COVID, so it's not - you can't present that as an excuse, because, but to me, there was like, she was super young, placement was really bad, and she was moved, she basically had like a second, first day of school, a whole new, you know, she had to get adapted to a whole new classroom, and it was a quick break after that. It was, it just was had so many things that I felt like were on my side that I presented that very clearly to the IEP team. And when we had the spring IEP, when we went into the IEP that day, when the screen went on, well, the people, the principal was there, which is never there on IEP, so we're like, they're gonna say no. I had you know they're gonna say no to repeat because he wouldn't be here.

Lindsay: Was not gonna be here to say yes, go for it, right?

Isabelle: And he said no, because you know Emilia is doing great socially, which back then she wasn't okay, wasn't like it was okay, it was you know she had friends, it wasn't something that I held on like all of her best offer, it was because it was been such a challenging year, it felt like it was not relevant, and he was, he thought, you know, if you, you should keep that, because I guess you can't repeat the grade more than one time, you can't keep repeating, it's the one card you have one time, so keep that for upper grade, you know, and I'm like, that doesn't make sense, you're telling me that it'll be easier for her to repeat when she would be a little bit more aware. Amelia didn't care repeating Kinder, she was not super aware of that. She didn't mind going back to Kinder again. I felt like if she was older and see her friends moving on to the next win and she's not, that would be harder. And I feel like Kinder is a great year to repeat, you know. So we had, we had to file a dispute resolution, which basically the step you take when, before going like the full legal route with a lawyer, you can do like this little dispute resolution on the side, which we did, and after a couple months, maybe we get, we heard back that they ruled in our favor, and the lady on the phone was like, it's I think every, she just a handful of kids in her 20 something years of experience, she's retained, like, we don't retain kids anymore, it takes a lot, but you had a really, really good case, so they actually not only did they say yes, you can repeat, but they added services, like we had, like, extra minutes for, you know, Matt, whatever, so you know, we won, and then we got extra, you know, on top of that, that's how much they felt like we really, really saw the case.

Lindsay: Maybe they realized that mom was the aide in the classroom for four months, that she might have a good case. Maybe we should just retain, right? Yeah, letters

Kelly: From Amelia's like doctors and private care team, and then she also like checked in with her teachers, with the French and the English teacher, like, "Hey, I'm thinking about this. What do you, what do you guys think? And they seem to really be on board, like that's a great idea, of cool. Yeah, I think repeating kindergarten would be really beneficial for her. And so then we couldn't get anything in writing, though. So then when at the IEP meeting, and the principal is like, yeah, no, we don't do that, we don't, we don't retain kids, and then, yeah, so think Isabel really did a great job getting her research, like covering all of her bases to make sure she was really making the right decision before she asked formally, and and then I think that really helped the, the IDR case.

Isabelle: Teah, it made us ready for it. We basically had it all together. We just submitted it to that, to that, to the district, and yeah, that was, yeah, that's why it was interesting, because in the moment when it, when the whole team was asked, like, what do you think about Amalia moving to first video, like, yeah, that would be great, and even the teachers, like, what you know, but it became clear. I think we pushed back a little bit, you know, with the principle, but then it became clear that he wasn't gonna bush. I'm like, okay, well, I think they told me on the spot, this desire, you, you can go to IDR, we can, you know, when, like, okay, well, I will do that, basically, you know. So that's what we did.

Lindsay: And we now, so we, Janet, I'm gonna put your question up here. We are, you know, obviously not attorneys, so but Janet's asking, when a student's retained, do they stay in the same school and same teacher, or are we allowed to send our student to a different school? And I know people who have retained their child in kindergarten, and actually a big reason was because they want. Their child to go to their home school, because that kindergarten year they were in a special ed class, and they wanted them to repeat for a lot of reasons, but they, they also wanted them to repeat in gen ed at their home school, and it was, it was a fight, but they got it, they did it, and they were very glad they did, then their child was, you know, going to school with the kids in their neighborhood, that's what was important to them. So, I don't know, Kelly, if you wanted to add anything to that.

Isabelle: Oh, I'm sorry, Kelly.

Kelly: Well, so in Isabel's case, it was the same school and the same teachers, so in that case, so I think maybe it depends on the maybe the preference of the of the parent,

Lindsay: But if it's in the IEP, and the IEP is allowed, you know, we have to, if it's in the IEP that she's cleared to be retained, no matter where she goes, that's a law that they have wherever school she goes, that IEP stands until there's a new amendment IEP, so if she was like, yeah, she can repeat kinder, I think they would have, by law, they would have to honor that IEP, right?

Lindsay: Right, right, yeah, that's what we think. Go for it, Janet. Try, you know, let us know what you say, because, of course, there's always where it's like the we don't do that. And again, we say this a lot, can't say it too much. Whenever someone says we don't do that, you can ask to see the policies. So, if they say, oh, you can't repeat in the same class, or you can't repeat, you know, and go to a different class, ask to see that policy, and that's the best, that's always the best way to go when they say they don't do that, but that does lead us to IEPs, and you know, we need to talk about how you set all this into motion, like in the IEPs, and we know it was both a difficult and a beautiful reception for Amelia when she arrived at at the school, but you know, in the IEPs, did you, did you know what to shoot for for Amelia's goals, and did you feel like the IEP team was setting up appropriate but high expectations for those goals?

Isabelle: I honestly, I did not, I didn't, I did not go into the IEP meeting with, I, what I wanted to see for goals, I actually kind of relied heavily on the IEP team, and that is because I really, I do like the team that Amalia has currently - they're mostly all the same one that she has now, as she had since she's been having since kinder, so I felt like the goals were appropriate, you know, and I think every single meeting since when we permitted out of our home district. Kelly has been in all my IEP meetings. I mean, this year for the IEP, they're really late because there was no psychologist, just to show how Kelly is important to me. They submitted, like, "Here's the IEP on this date, and I'm like, "I texted Kelly right away, like, 'Oh, I can't. Like, I'm not.. it was.. it's already like a month late. I'm like, 'I'm not going IEP without Kelly, so I'm like, sorry, another available that day, I can't budge anything, you know. And then they send me another date, and then I kill you. What about this? And she could. I'm like, okay, I'm not going on IP with an advocate, I'm not. I'm not going to IP with Kelly ever. She stuck with me forever. But, um, because she's there with me, I'm a parent, I'm a lot more like emotionally involved, even if I go in the IEP with a really clear head idea what I want, when they talk about your kid, it kind of like messes you up a little bit, and you forget what you wanted to say, you forget what kind of goals you like, because you like, you become for me, at least I become a bit mushy, my brain is there to like

Kelly: IEP meetings too, I am, I am, can be a mess, and I get teary or cry in every, every single one.

Isabelle: Right is it's that's why it's so helpful, like the advocate, like for Kelly to be there and be like she'll ask a question and I'm like yes I remember we I might I would have forgotten but she doesn't because she's there she has she takes the note she so that's actually what makes me more confident to go in an IEP because because I have that person by my side who's level headed, and we've talked about before. We will prepare it, and you know, I can let my mom side take over a little bit, you know, because I have,

Lindsay: Yeah, and even, and all of the reasons that you just laid out, and I mean, I know you know, you come out, there's all the emotions, you're either feeling, you know, relieved, or even if everything went well, sometimes you just.. it's really hard to sit in a meeting listening to a lot of people talking at you, like what your child can't do. Hopefully, they're talking about what they can do too, but it's a really.. it's difficult and emotional, everything that you just said. And so to have someone else there to say, like, am I crazy? Did I hear this? Like, how did you know to really like you kind of decompress? At least I do. And then it's like I need to talk about it, right? It's sort of like, okay, wait, did I hear this? What did I hear? I need to kind of come back down to earth, and so to have a person, obviously, and Kelly knows you so well and has been so involved in shaping, you know, your making sure that your goals for Amelia are coming together, and so I just, I think that's so important. Absolutely, especially in the early, earlier, yeah,

Isabelle: Yeah, yeah. When you, I mean, I feel like every IP is stressful, but that you kind of do know what to expect as they, you know, as they come. Right, but yeah, and we said that a lot today, balance, balance, but it's true, you don't, it's hard to hear people talk negatively about your kid, what they can't do, what they can't do, what they can do, but you also know that's what you need to highlight to get the support you need, so you like, we're not here to talk about what she can do, because then she, you know, so you want them to get all the services they deserve, so you kind of have to highlight the negatives, it's that balance again, like I know I need to hear this, so that she gets the proper support, you know. But it is difficult, right?

Lindsay: Well, also still building up the things they can do, so then that it's not used as an excuse to keep them out of certain settings. It's.. it is everything is this balance. So I'm sure it's great to have Kelly to be able to help with that balance, because it's very difficult, and when it's your child, 50 times more difficult. And then, what resources did you find instrumental in supporting Isabel for her IEP prep? And then you can tell me if you disagree, Isabel.

Kelly: So, I think one of the, one of the great things we do, we do a lot, we do a lot of prep, so we'll work together to come up with her list of parent concerns, like these are some things we want to make sure gets addressed, or we, or we ask about sometimes. We probably send a letter ahead of time, so the team knows what we want them to make sure to cover. We get a draft copy of the IEP to review prior to the IEP, so we can see the goals, and we can see the accommodations and have Isabelle take a look, like, does this sound good? And sometimes we might want to, like, we added one about containers, or you know, because the OT was like, yeah, she's kind of fine, but she's really not, like, she struggles with getting her her coat zipped in her, so we can, we can push for some other areas, so we have all this planned out before we go into the meeting. Sometimes there's some back and forth Isabel will have with her, herself, and the, and the therapist to kind of work. I like to get as much worked out before the IEP as possible, so that the meeting itself is pretty, like, pretty easy. Um, accommodations, I think, are really important, but now that she's in, we'll still talk about, like, what's what are the struggles, and what, where you know what's what, do you feel like it's kind of going wrong, and then we can kind of game plan backwards, and I love accommodations, I think are really important in that way, so a lot of times if you have the right accommodations that can sort of help solve a lot of the, a lot of the issues, and then like for the one coming up next week, like our big thing is probably going to be well, we'll discuss doing some push-in services, and then also an inclusion specialist. I really think that's probably the most important piece now that her academics are getting a little bit more rigorous, and it seems like the English and French, the gen ed teachers are kind of saying, like, we don't really know, we need help, like we don't know what to do, she's not doing what all the other kids are doing, so what do we do? So we need somebody to come in and kind of help guide them, and it seems like sometimes that is the resource teacher, but it seems like that's not really happening right now with the current resource teacher, so maybe so we need to kind of kind of figure that piece out.

Lindsay: Well, and then those accommodations can completely change and evolve once that inclusion facilitator comes in, and then you know it becomes a different level. I'm, what, what do both of you think that the biggest difference in the I.. what made the biggest difference in the IEP to get Amelia what she needed? What did you guys do? What did you do that you think made the biggest difference to get Amelia what she needed?

Isabelle: I think be predetermined knowing what we want, what we need, and those meetings that me and Kelly hold before it helps clear my head, you know. We just get prepared. You just have to be really not.. I try not to go in with like I'm gonna go to war, like anticipating negativity, because that's not, you know, there were a team again, but just be ready for what, for what we want, like this IEP, the OT wants to go from two to one a week, and we have reservation for that, so we want to just, like, you know, make sure that we go in, and you just need to go knowing what you want and why, and just be ready to present that, and you know, I feel like that's if you know what you want, and you're ready with the right to the way to present it, then you can go in with confidence, you know, and not take no for an answer, unless there's a really good explanation, you know, of why they're saying no to what you want. Yeah,

Lindsay: Yeah, know where those compromises can come in and where they can't, right? You know, Kelly, throughout the whole experience, from the IP, you know, to inclusion to placement to retention, Isabelle didn't take any easy roads. So, what is, what's the biggest thing that other parents can learn from Isabel?

Kelly: So, I think the thing that I admire most about Isabel, and I think this has been something that's really helped her, helped Amelia throughout. Is just her like her passion for her daughter, like she's always Amelia focused. She's not like this is what I think I want. She's like, this is what my daughter needs. She knows her, he, she knows her daughter incredibly well, and she's always like child-centered. She's this, she's always thinking about what's in the best interest for Millie. A, and because she has such a collaborative relationship with the other members of the team, they all love Isabelle, they all love Amelia, like it's that's very evident in the meetings that we have. Think it's a really open, collaborative IEP team. So I think I think we all see, like, her passion and her, her just desire, her expectations are not unrealistic, so she's not like, like, upset because she's not reading at a on grade level, like she's, she's like, this is my kid, and let's just, let's take the steps to make things better for her. I think the issue with the district is that they just, they don't really have the what they need in order to fully make that come to fruition for her, and so there's there is so much fight on the part of of the parents, and I think Isabella's such a great example of that, just being like so, so positive and so passionate about her daughter and what her daughter needs, and she won't take no for an answer, and she won't, like the principal said, no, yeah, we don't do retention here, and she's like, yeah, I don't think, let's, let's take it to the next level and see what happens, and so, so she's driven too to support her daughter.

Lindsay: And Evie had a question for you, Isabel, she said, besides the accommodations, what modifications have worked for kindergartners in the gen ed setting, have you seen any modifications that have been made in the kindergarten? Did you see any in the kindergarten setting?

Isabelle: No, I mean, sometimes I get modification accommodations confused, but like I said, like the binder, the visual schedules, the dark markers, is that

Kelly: She didn't really need modifications. Yeah, kindergarten.

Isabelle: None in kindergarten.

Lindsay: Yeah, I mean, you would hope that most things would be able to be accommodated in kindergarten, but I'm sure there are circumstances, but it's, it's hard to imagine people who can't imagine inclusion in kindergarten, yeah, we've all seen that, that is commonplace. Yes. So, Isabel, I mean, I know we're coming up at time, but what are your, your top three tips for parents that you learned from your entire kinder experience?

Isabelle: I guess I would say, first of all, just like, just know what your rights are like what you can and can't ask for, because I didn't know I needed Kelly's help. It's a new world, I never had a kid with special needs before. So, just know, just educate yourself on what you know the least restrictive environment, know that, like, what are your rights as a parent when in public schools or private schools? And then know those rights, you know, know them well. I think, because I felt like I could have done.. I feel like I could have done even more to be more prepared to know what was on my side. Also, I would say engage the teachers, like engage them, be ready to educate, not in like a way where it's condescending, like you're an idiot, let me tell you how it is, like just a. I'm a partner in the education of my kid, and so I want, like, I educate them, like, for me it was about Down syndrome. It was, it's still a lot of people still don't know about what to expect with acute Down syndrome. So, like, whatever your kid diagnosis is, go in and meet with the teachers ahead of time. Do you have any questions? Be proactive, give them printouts about, here's what it is, in a nutshell, the diagnosis, you know, I think that would help, and also having like a little get to know your kid before school starts, strength, weaknesses, things that tick him or her off, like things like that, just be proactive in letting those educators know who your kid is, you know, so that the law know that, no, engage the teachers and educating them, and everybody that will be working with your kid, be proactive in educating them. And then I think also, like, know your why. Don't just go like I always say, I don't, I didn't fight for inclusion for a man, for inclusion's sake. It's not like inclusion, that's it, that's the only way. But why? Like, so know your why. Why is this the best choice? Why do you think that's the best environment for your kid? Just be ready, because if you know your why, as opposed to, we just, that's just what we do. Either you know, for the school to say we don't do that, is it's not good, but for you to say we just do that, but not knowing why. I think you'd be better equipping confident if you're like this is why, and because you have those reasons, you know, your why. You also, it gives you confidence to to enter these social spheres. Absolutely. And what, what is your.. what I mean, we know Amelia is your why, but what I think a great place to, to wrap it is, what is your vision for Amelia? Like, what is all this building towards? What do you envision?

Isabelle: Yeah, I mean, to me, always goes back to Amelia being an included active member of society wherever she goes. So, if it's a ballet class, school, church, wherever she goes, I want her to be included in every aspect, whether she has differences or not, and I want her for her, I. Want her to feel like she belongs. I don't want her to feel like she's an other. I want her to feel like she is worthy. She is so capable. I want to assume competence, but I want everybody else to see that. I want everybody else to see that you don't have to be worried about her, like it's just just for her to feel like she's included everywhere, and she's loved and worthy and received, you know, with open arms, which sounds very sounds kind of cliche, but that's just what I want. For I wanted to be just part of the society in every way, you know. Of course,

Lindsay: Like we like every.. well, I shouldn't say every person, right, but most people want to be part of the world, as simple as that seems. Yet, when the message continues to come across that your child belongs, you know, in another, you know, in another class, in another school, in another apartment building, you know, whatever that might be, that's what you know, that's what inclusion is. It's that all of the beautiful diversity of our world is living in it together, you know exactly where they are, which is exactly where, where they should be, and you know everyone needs to, you know, rewrite in their mind what they think of as

Isabelle: Right, and I think I guess I would just add also for her to do what brings her joy without having like any expectations, like as she gets older, see and encourage those passions and gifts that she has, you know, if she's happy, which she is really a happy love life kind of girl, you know, if she's happy in what she's doing, and people love her, I think you know that it's simple, but then I think other things will fall into place when this, when those initial pieces are in, you know,

Lindsay: I love that. Thank you, thank you so much to both of you for, for sharing your story. I mean, you are, you're an amazing pair, and I know you've been together for a long time, but I am inspired always by both of you, and for hearing your story, and to be able to then share that with other parents, so they can learn from it. Isabelle, it's incredible, and you know, if this feels intimidating, you know, just, just channel what Isabel shared, so it may feel like you're sometimes going to war instead of an IEP, hopefully not, but this is your team, cultivate it, try and build trust, and steer back to that North Star, which is your child, and you know you can do this, I know, you know, I know, Kelly, Isabel, and I all feel like this is no one's gonna fight harder for your child than you. You don't have to know everything, right? Start small, and if you question something that's said to you, look into it, ask about it, ask to see that policy, lean on other parents, hire an advocate if you feel like you need that, and if you want a consistent partner on this journey, one who always has your back. We would love to help you with that. You don't have to do this alone. And so to find out more information about how you can meet your navigator and have your first boost call, check out the Kickstart. Donna is going to put the link in the chat, and like I mentioned in the beginning, in a minute we're going to leave you with a preview of one of Kelly's recent boost calls when she's getting a mom ready for summer with Regional Center, and I'm gonna pop, excuse me, and you're gonna get a glimpse into that call, a peek at our app and our digital binder, because let's face it, there are, and I can say this with personal experience, there are no closets big enough for the old binders that hold all this critical information about our kiddos, so ditch 'em and go digital. And if you're not already a member of our Facebook group, please join us this week. We are talking about conservatorship, preschool programs, and the ever present potty training. So, we're also, we're not gonna see you next Thursday as we slow down our events just a bit during the summer. So, make sure and check our Facebook page for any upcoming events, and if you're in our Facebook group, you're going to be the first to know. We're going to be back in two weeks with something I'm very excited for: estate planning. We dread it, but we got to do it. So, we're going to have former state estate attorney and currently one of Maryland's assistant attorney generals, as well as being the mom to three, including one kiddo with a disability. Brianna Davidson Jarrett is going to break down the most important things that you need to plan for in the long and short term, and in addition to doing this professionally, she's creating her own family's estate plan right now, so you don't want to miss the practical advice that she's going to bring. She's awesome. It's part of our four part summer series, Building a Better Financial Future, where we're going to go over all the best practices to set yourself and your family up for financial success without all the financial jargon that makes you shut down. So, also please note that this series is going to be at a different time. It's going to be at 2o'clock Pacific Standard Time on Thursdays. So, plan a late lunch or a snack and join us live. Donna's going to put the RSVP info in the chat window. Send in your questions ahead of time, and we'll, we can get to them, you know, even if you can't attend live. And can you believe it, Isabelle Kelly, you're here. This is a wrap for IEPs this year, at least, at least here on Facebook Live. I know many of us are still in the IEP trenches, but thank you, thank you again to Isabelle and Kelly. You are the Wonder Twins, and thanks to Donna and Iris in the chat, and to all of you for stopping by Undivided Live, wishing you a holiday weekend filled with love, family, and gratitude, and a deep thank you to our veterans. And we're going to leave you with that sneak peek into one of Kelly's Boost calls. I do just have to say this: it's been, it's been a horrific week in the news, so we hold you and your families and all families close to our hearts, so we hope to see you soon. Take care of each other.

Kelly: Okay, so let's dig into the account and tell me, how's James? Give me like an overview of what's been going on.

Parent: James is doing great, he is enjoying school. He's got an incredible aid, so that's wonderful. His team is working hard on the whole AAC device thing. School is going well. They finally have an inclusion specialist who's in there.

Kelly: Talk to me about summer's coming up.

Parent: We got James into a camp where I can drop them off for like three hours in the day. I'm hoping to find more. He kid, this kid is a social being, and he loves being around people.

Kelly: Let me hop into the into the account, and our wonderful benefits specialist put together a new guide for our families that we can put into their accounts. There was a new law that went into effect last summer, where social rec activities would be covered by regional centers. Let me walk you through the guide that Lisa created for tips about that. Think about what your child's goals are, what you want for them, what they want, where they need support, etc. And then think about what kinds of services would help them meet those goals. What specific supports do you think you will need over the summer to ensure that you can continue to meet your child's needs? Do you need more respite or daycare or supervision? And then we have an article about that to get the most out of regional center this summer, which I think is a fantastic article. It might be helpful to check your if your regional center has the list of who's vendored through them, kind of check, maybe check through that list and see if any, any might be benefit, you feel like any might be beneficial for James, and then request that from your service coordinator, and then if you'd like to have a like a consultation call with Lisa CK about this, because she's much more knowledgeable about this than I am, let me know, and I can set that up, because she'll do a free 15 minute consult. If you have any specific questions or need any, any specific guidance from her, I can set that up. Okay, I know there's some, some challenges with getting the orthotics covered. Our Director of Health Plan Services, her advocacy, she's set to have a consultation call with you. She just made a certain information uploaded into the account, front and back of your insurance card. Yeah, what she needs is here in the first two steps. Just let me know that's been in there, and then I can do with you. She's fantastic. You can find these guides here, it's called Our Plan, okay? And the account just happened. All right, and then I want to check in with you about your needs and wants, see if there are any updates, see what updates have happened since the last time we talked. How about his behaviors?

Parent: Um, behaviors have been kind of up and down, um, it's getting better.

Kelly: Oh, that's fantastic. If you want to upload into, in the document section, if you want to upload James's IEP, I can make a, an IEP summary. You click add new. I mean, if you already have it as a PDF, you can select the file from your browser and add it. If you're on your on an iPhone, you can just take pictures of the pages and it'll automatically upload, which is pretty. Okay.

Parent: Awesome. Thank you.

Kelly: You have a really good support team in place for now, and that's key. That's key. Are you making sure to take some time for your own? Oh, you stop it, Kelly. I know this annoys a lot of my clients, but I think it's, it's important. So, I liked. yes,

Parent: I know you are right. I know, so yes, I am working on that's a work in progress.

Kelly: All right, that makes me happy. Okay, good. All right, it was so good to see you. So nice to see you, Kelly. I will see you next time. All right, thanks, Kelly. Bye. bye.

Transcribed by otter.ai