High School IEPs and the Transition to Adulthood with Education Advocate Lisa Carey

IEPs evolve in high school, just like our kids do. We’re starting to focus on those vision statements and what comes after high school as our teens near adulthood, but how can we know all of the options and possibilities for support?

During our live chat with Undivided Education Advocate Lisa Carey, we covered major milestones and steps to take from age 14 to 21 so that you can feel confident you’re preparing your teen for adulthood. Learn about Individualized Transition Plans, Regional Center & the Department of Rehabilitation, college pathways, the growing numbers of college programs for kids with cognitive impairments, and more!

Check out our recap of the highlights here, or watch the full video below!

Hey everybody, welcome to Undivided Live. I'm Lindsay Crain, and I head the Content and Community teams here at Undivided, and thanks for being here today, because today we're going to be talking about one of the most important topics for our families and that's how the IEP process can support our kids as they prepare to transition to life after high school, and that planning? It can't start too early. All of the years of therapies, IEP accommodations, related services, and the sometimes literal blood, sweat, and tears, it's all about removing barriers so our kids can learn, grow, and develop skills that will help support them to their greatest level of independence and self-empowerment. Transitions are important, and the post school transition? It's one of the biggest. So does your child's school team treat transition planning like the blueprint it should be? Whether your child has a specific learning disability or significant support needs, the transition process is a vital piece to laying out what comes next. Another huge piece of the transitioning process can lie with public benefits, so we’ll be touching on how education can intersect and collaborate without side services and organizations. Does the family initiate these connections or does the school? ITPs, diploma categories, Department of Rehab, workability, 18 to 22 year old program, college programs for all, and more. We have a lot to discuss in the next hour, so Undivided education advocate Lisa Carey is here today to walk us through the most important things we need to know about IEPs and the transition to adulthood, and she would know because Lisa has advocated for thousands of families with IEPs, including her own. She's also the mother of three sons with disabilities. So, Lisa, when should a parent start talking to their child's school about the transition to adulthood or life after high school?

So, this is a good question. So, my first answer, everyone's going to go, “What?” but birth. We need to start thinking about it right away, and the reason I say that is because we're raising... we're not raising kids, we're raising adults, right? Because they're going to be an adult when we get to the end of this, and so we want to make sure that we're scaffolding and planning. The answer that you're looking for is, I recommend that parents request a transition assessment around January of an eighth... of the child's eighth grade year, so that in the spring of that year, you're going to have a transition to high school meeting with the IEP team, and that's a good time to start developing their ITP.

Okay, so let's let's break this down first. What is an ITP, or an Individual Transition Plan?

Yeah., so an ITP is a plan that... sorry, it comes from an assessment to start with. and the assessment looks at future education, independent living skills, and whether... and employment, so education, employment, independent living skills, and an ITP has in it goals. It should have goals in those three areas. Just like other goals in an... in an IEP.

And does every student with an IEP at age 16 require an IPP regardless of diagnosis?

Yeah, so you're right, it's required by... excuse me, it's required by the law... by law, by age 16. There is actually a new law that is coming that has been signed, and I don't know a ton about it, but it looks like they're recommending that they be done in eighth grade, which is what... or it says by ninth grade, so eighth grade would be by ninth grade, right? And yes, every child with an IEP should have a transition plan.

And is there any downfall to waiting until they're 16 to start the process?

Well, yeah, in my opinion, yes. There's a couple of reasons why you don't want to wait until 16. At 16, there might not be a lot of time left to work on exploring post high school goals or post high school plans. I know that very few of us know what we want to do when we're 16 for the rest of our life or even eighth grade or ninth grade, right? But you want to have lots of time to let the child explore different possibilities and different ideas so you can get closer to having a plan, and if your child is a 2E kid, and these are kids that are both gifted and have a disability, right? They may be wanting to go straight to a universal... even not 2E kids, maybe want to go straight to a university, straight from high school, without going to community college, and those kids need to take the right classes to do that starting in ninth grade, so that's another reason that you shouldn't be talking about that transition planning, if that's something your child's planning on.

Yes, and we're definitely going to touch on college in a little bit, but I really do want to drive home why, Lisa? Why is the ITP so important?

Because we want to know... Well, our children want to know, but us as parents want to know what's going to happen next. What's going to happen after high school? And the ITP can be the beginning point for figuring out those next steps.

Absolutely. And I know... Alyssa, I see your question about a transition assessment. I'm going to get to that in just a second. Lisa, I wanted to ask you, I know you said to me one time, for children, for 18 years and adults for 50 or 60 years, so planning for this next stage, right, is so important, and just some clarifications about ITP too, is an ITP in addition to the IEP or is this a separate meeting?

Great question. Generally it's the same meeting. So just like some of our kids might have a BIP, a behavior intervention plan, or a health plan attached to the IEP, it’s a part of the IEP. It is not a separate thing. Usually it's done in the same meeting; however, if that timing of that lines up with, say, your triennial assessment, you might need to reassess and have multiple meetings, right, because it is a lot to go over, but it is... should be at the same time as the IEP, and it should be reviewed every time you review that IEP and updated if needed.

And what should an IEP meeting with an ITP look like, and I ask because a lot of standalone transition meetings, or even if they are in an IEP, from preschool to elementary or elementary to middle, sometimes it can be like, here's this 20 minute discussion, it feels way less detailed than a lot of us parents feel like it should be, so what should this meeting be like, and can it be like a standalone one hour meeting if we want?

I don't see why it can't be a standalone meeting. Now, technically, right, when you... it is part of... it is an IEP meeting, so an IEP would be opened, right? So if you had a standalone meeting I don't see why not. If you're concerned about having enough time to talk about it, you can certainly request either a longer meeting or multiple meetings just like you can with any other IEP meeting. And what it should look like is they should have done assessments that are meaningful, and I know we're going to talk about that, and they should have spoken to the child specifically about what their interests are, and it should be the... it should cover all three of those areas that I talked about before, which is independent living and future employment and future education. And those are the key points, and the goals should not be cookie cutter goals, and this is a huge problem right now. I don't know about right now. I think for always it's a huge problem with it. I mean, I could literally probably read off from the top of my head the most common goals in ITP, and I'm sure that half the people watching could look at their child's ITP and be like, “Whoa, that's what it says,” because they're copying and pasting. So you want to make sure that it is truly individualized for your child, right?

And before we talk about goals, because I want to ask you for some examples of good goals, but before we talk about that, let's do touch on what you had mentioned before. And Alyssa was asking about the transition assessment. What is a transition assessment?

Okay, so a transition assessment is going to look at a student's preferences, needs, likes, dislikes, and how that might interact with their future plans. It should be like any assessment should. It should include background information, educational history, document review, interviews, present levels of... Oh gosh, I'm sorry, you guys. Career in assessment, planning and even potentially looking at functional skills and recommendations and like any assessment, it should have findings and recommendations.

Got it. And just to really drive home the standards for a transition assessment are based in law and Lisa had shared a great PACER link with me, so Donna's going to share that in the chat just so you can really look at that. And I mentioned that it's based in law just because it's not like, hey, these are nice things to have there. There is a basis in law. So definitely check that out. And so Lisa, should we always request a transition assessment before the ITP, or is the district required to conduct an assessment before they can do the ITP, just like in a regular IEP?

Yeah, there should be an assessment before the ITP. The reason earlier I said you should request it is because as it stands today, and I say that because there is this new law that was just signed, as it stands today, typically schools won't do this assessment until closer to age 16, so I'm recommending that we request it in eighth grade, and if your child is in ninth grade or tenth grade, request it, but the district will initiate it if it's not been started by 16, by asking, yeah, through the usual assessment process.

Right. And who conducts the transition assessment?

So schools generally don't do a great job here, but usually I see the special education teacher doing it or sometimes the school psychologist. I think the best practice -- and you're not going to find this often with schools -- is sort of a combination between the psychologist and a vocational counselor who has training in this area. This... I call... Parts of an assessment plan may have some cognitive testing to it if it hasn't been done recently, and that's why I mentioned the psychologist, but most schools have the special education teacher basically do some surveys with the child. That's usually what it's looking like right now, and those tend to not be comprehensive when that word comes from the law. It tends to not be comprehensive enough.

Got it. And I see Carla asked a question. We are going to talk about the new graduation pathway later, but she asked, has the IEP process changed since the new graduation pathway? So I didn't know if there's anything you wanted to comment on that.

That's a really good question. We're going to talk more about the graduation pathway, I hope, like you said, but I think that's really interesting. I don't know. I think that some schools... The problem with the new graduation pathway, and I shouldn't say it's a problem with the pathway, but some schools and districts have no idea what it means. They don't know how to do it. They're still figuring it out, and others are forging ahead and doing a really good job figuring out how to... how to implement the new pathway, so I think that answer is going to really be a resounding “depends.”

Right. And Carla, this is based in nothing but my reaction to your question, so I've no idea. I feel like it also... that new pathway does give us a little more like, hey, we really need to be looking at this. You know, there's... having a diploma opens up different possibilities for kids who might not otherwise have one, so it could really hopefully help and support those conversations. And we have another question. I think, it's... it says if the child goes to an NPS, then is it the school district or the NPS that does the assessment and builds the ITPs?

Generally it's the school district. Generally, the school district does ultimately hold the responsibility to do all the assessments, but there are cases where I have seen the school district... I don't know if ‘contracts out’ is the right word, but has the the NPS do it, but ultimately it is the school district that is responsible.

Okay. And you touched on goals, obviously. So once we have this assessment, the ITP needs to have measurable goals, so can you give us some examples of good goals? You can also give us some examples, like you're saying, of bad goals because I think it's good to have the contrast. Like you said, if you could think of any off the top of your head, but... and how are these different from IEP goals?

Okay. So these, again, are looking at that independence, future education, future employment, right? And the most common goals that I see, which I don't like personally, are: student will explore three possible careers, and they'll allocate 15 minutes a month for them to work with a special education teacher, or sometimes a counselor of some kind to work on that. That is not individualized, because that is on every one that I see just about. I like goals that are more specific and more relevant to the actual child that we're talking about. Interests and goals, for example, you could say something like, the student will explore three possible careers that involve working with young children, okay? Or... and obviously I want to be a little bit more clear what explore means, right? But maybe identify requirements to get into that field or something like that. And then an additional goal could say something like, student will visit a preschool or kindergarten class and a therapy clinic and write a paragraph, or make a poster or use their talk... their AAC device to share about that experience. So more specific than just explore three careers, right? Because a lot of our 14 year olds might say, I want to be a police officer or a pilot or a teacher. Well, they probably don't necessarily... are interested in all of those. Those just sound cool, right? So it... it's better to try to get more specific and sort of dial down like, hey, you really like working with young kids. Let's explore that.

And so Lisa, if somebody, just from your example about go and visiting a preschool, is that something then that the school is responsible for taking that student and doing those things, or is that something that... does it work differently in the ITP goal, right, where that's like, yeah, you can go do that in your life and then come back and do something here, or is that something then that the school is going to be responsible for seeing through?

So I have seen... it's a great question, okay? I have seen it where the school... I have seen where the school is responsible, meaning when you have a goal in an IEP, whether it's the ITP or not, you're going to have somebody who's responsible for that goal assigned in the IEP. Usually for something like this, it's... it depends on the program the child is in. Not to say that if your child's in gen ed, they won't have an ITP, but if a child is, for example, in a life skills program, most likely that teacher from that life skills program already takes the kids out, will probably be the one assigned to that goal. I have seen kids in gen ed where they have assigned it to the parent, and I don't want to say that here because I don't want parents to think they have to do that, but if that is... technically that shouldn't happen, but if, for example, you have a kid that is 2E and they want to go visit three colleges, that's got to be the parent, right? Like you can't... the school's not going to get on a plane and go look at Oklahoma State University with your kid, right? So, I tell parents to be kind of a little bit flexible here. This... To me, the ITP is less about making the school do it right and more about figuring out the plan for this kid, and if it makes sense for the parent to go visit three colleges with the kid, then just do that. That's kind of my advice, but they can't make an IEP goal attributable to a parent, so it's going to be something that you're going to have to to work out with the school.

Got it.

And they might instead turn that into an internet goal, is what I'm saying. Like, the student will research on the internet three colleges, which again, it needs to be more specific. That's a very cookie cutter goal I’m giving you. I want it really specific and relevant, right? So if the child wants to go into working with young children, they might be looking at a certificate program at this community college versus that community college. Right.

And Alyssa asked another follow up question just about the assessments. How long does the district have to complete the assessment? Is it like every other assessment, Lisa?

Yeah, 60 days.

Okay. Got it. And Angie asked, “Is this info specific to a particular state or applicable everywhere?”

Okay. So, the requirements for transition planning is under IDEA, but every state is going to have very specific rules, so I'm speaking here about California, but if you're not in California, they are still required to be doing an ITP. I just don't know the exact specifications around that out of California. And also to clarify, so ITP goals are in addition to IEP goals, they do not replace them, correct?

Correct. Yes. Correct.

Great. And I know I keep... it might sound like I keep just asking for clarifications, but I want to be really clear because I hear from a lot of parents that sometimes there isn't a lot of understanding or time sort of put into ITPs, so is there progress reporting on ITP goals? Is there accountability?

There should be. Absolutely there are goals in the IEP just like any other goal.

Got it. And so...

And I mean I... we're talking a lot about goals, but one of the things that I like to do, and again this is not in the... this is not, as I am... as far as I'm aware in any of the regulations, but if your client... if your client... if your child is working on a goal in their ITP that involves gathering of information of some kind, okay, as a parent, when they finish school, whether they're graduating at 18 or finishing at 22 in the adult transition program, if this is something you want to continue with your child after graduation, I would give that some forethought and bring that up in the meeting. For example, are they using a Google spreadsheet to track this information that this child's gathering, and if so, how do you get access to it as the parent so they don't leave school and this work that was done in this transition planning is gone. That is something to think about. I just want to mention that.

Definitely. And another thing I think is really important to drive home for some students with exceptional support needs, employment might not be their biggest priority for planning for the future.

Right.So does the vision for an ITP have to be employment?

No, it doesn't. It... The regulations talk about future independence, employment, and future education, but not everybody is going to be doing all of those things, so you just want to make sure that they're addressed as much as possible, and employment too, I always want to say it could be volunteer work too.

Right. And I think I saw somebody, I think it was Sandra, ask about person- centered planning earlier, and I know, Lisa, in our previous conversations we've talked about how it's really important to take a person- centered approach to transition planning, just like hopefully we are to everything else, but it's just a great example, again, to really build that in.

I... Sandra, exclamation point, exclamation point, I think it is so important that it is... I always talk about how my son lives a self-determined life. Those are the words that I use when he's being asked to do something, or we're being asked to do something that doesn't match what he wants. I'm not talking about behavior. I'm talking about bigger life stuff, and it's super important that the person in the middle of this transition planning and their voice in the middle of this transition planning is the child as much as possible. Some kids can verbally tell you what they want to do. Some kids might be able to just make a choice between two things. Fine. That is... that is their input, and if all else fails, at a minimum, the parents and caregivers can share their likes and their dislikes if they're completely unable, but there's usually a way to even just choose a choice, whether it's using Eyegaze. I just want to make sure that, as much as possible, that the person or the child is at the center of this planning.

Absolutely. And the planning, like we said before, can involve people outside of the IEP team that we've known it, so I want to talk about the Department of Rehabilitation or DOR, which is actually soon going to be renamed to Disability Works California, so I might go back and forth in referring to them by their old and new name, because I'm not sure exactly when that's happening, but they can play a big part in preparing for the transition post-high school. Lisa, how can they help?

Yeah. So in preparing for today and thinking about today, what I learned is there are so many programs at DOR, right, that even I get them confused in my head. Which program does what thing? But starting at age... I want to say six, so there's multiple programs. I'm talking about, right now, just DOR direct, that starting at age 16, they can provide... help provide work experience for students with disabilities. Typically, what you're looking for when you call DOR is student services. They will often, like many of the bureaucracies we deal with, send you to the wrong department. You're looking for student services. And they'll help... What they'll typically do is talk to your student, find out what your student might be interested in, and place them in employment in that area. So, for example, they might work at a shoe store in the mall, and DOR will set up limits like maximum 300 hours, 20 hours a week, and when your student hits that 300 hours, they're done with that job, and they can go back to the DOR and be placed in another type of experience if they wish.

Okay. And then there was also something I wanted you to touch on about vocational or possibly paying for college. Can you expand on that a little bit?

Yeah. So, this is really exciting. So DOR will pay for education for people with disabilities if that education will lead to employment. So what is the difference? If your student says, “I want to take a pottery class because pottery is cool,” they're not going to pay for that. If your student says, “I want to take a pottery class because I want to be an art teacher, and it's part of the requirements to become an art teacher,” even if it's like a credential art teacher at a school, or just an art teacher at a pottery place where you teach pottery, right? DOR would most likely pay for that. They will also pay if it's a vocational training that has requirements, like let's say your child wants to be a chef or a mechanic, right? Those have usually shoes and clothing. You have to have special shoes. They will also fund for that, the books, the tuition. It's a really exciting program.

Okay, so two questions about that. First, how much college or vocational tuition will the DOR or Disability Works California, how much will they pay?

Okay, so my honest answer is I don't actually know and I can't find it anywhere, but I'll tell you what I do know, okay? What I do know is that they want to use the least expensive way to make... to reach that career goal. So, for example, if you want to be a chef and there's this really expensive culinary school over here that is run by this celebrity chef and is thousands of dollars more than this regular one down the street run by some lady who's a really good cook, you're going to go to the cheaper one. They're not going to pay for you to go to this really expensive one. I know that. I do know that they, for sure, are paying community college for transfer to university for students that I know, and I do know students at universities like CSUN, for example, who are funded through DOR. I don't know, though, if there's a maximum amount or... That I don't know. I do know that you are required to do the FAFSA application, which is how you apply for financial aid for college and then give that to DOR before they fund.

And this is something we're going to be following up on, so we will definitely have updates, because as these questions are coming up, our Content team is reaching out and we actually have an upcoming interview with the DOR, so we're going to be asking a lot of these questions because there aren't necessarily clear cut, very black and white answers, or maybe there are that we just can't find right now, so we're going to be following up on that, and we'll be updating our articles, which Donna's sharing links to. So second question about that, Lisa. How does a family initiate the request to take classes that can count towards that college tuition benefit?

Yeah, so when you reach out to the DOR and you start... So whether you're starting with student services or you're going into their adult services, they create something called an Individualized Plan for Employment, IPE, and an IPE is basically like a written agreement between you and the DOR and it outlines what your child or their client, what their employment goals are and what services the DOR will provide to help them meet those goals.

And Janet asks, I don't know if you'll know the answer to this, Lisa, but she asked, “Is it based on need?”

It... So, it's a great question. So to become a client with DOR, you have to have a disability that... I believe that... You have to have a disability, right? And how a lot of the families who are on this talk right now would prove that disability is through the IEP or the IPP, so showing the Regional Center document or the school district document, but I do know that families who have a child who just... who has a 504, because maybe it's just ADHD and it doesn't affect them enough in school for an IEP, for example, can go through DOR. Families who have children with specific learning disabilities like dyslexia are able to use DOR, so the idea of DOR is to help those who have a disability that could make employment difficult for whatever reason.

And do parents contact Disability Works California or DOR or does the school involve them?

So the school should, but they rarely do, so I tell parents to go ahead and reach out to start the process.

And at what point should we then initiate that process and how?

Well, if you... so there's... that's a kind of a big question, right? So if you’re looking for that student work experience, right, at 16, then I would contact them around 16 or shortly before. If you're only interested in adult services then you can also contact them and have them come to your IEP meetings if you'd like. I would typically think of that more in 11th and 12th grade, but I know people who have done it earlier and there's no reason not to for the additional support, so it's going to depend what programs you're looking at, and they have a lot of programs.

Yeah. Well, and that's what I was going to say. So then when we... when we contact them, I guess I should say, the hope is that they're going to walk us through all the options that they can provide for our kids, right?

Hopefully. Hopefully, yeah. That's what's supposed to happen, right? It's sort of like, here's the info on my kid. What should we be discussing? What's out there?

Yeah, and I want to tell you that it has been reported to me and other advocates that there are a lot of times that DOR is saying, “Oh, we can't help your kid. Your kid has Down syndrome. We don't work with kids with Down syndrome,” for example. That is not true. So if that happens to you, I would reach out to a supervisor there and maybe reach out to an advocate in the community who works with DOR or maybe Regional Center to assist you because that is not true. They do work with people with disabilities, and your child isn't not disabled enough or too disabled for their services.

Okay. And then just to clarify, because I know I saw Carrie had a question too, so we can contact them after this transition process is initiated, or do we have to wait until they're 16 to contact? You might have said that and I missed it.

Yeah, I... It depends, again, I think, what your... what parts of the DOR process you want to use, but I... you can contact them before 16, but if you’re wanting... But when I said 16, where I was coming up with that was if you want them to go work at... in the... to get the work experience, right? So, the shoe store, right? You can't do that. You can't work till 16 in California, right? So, that's where that 16 figure came from.

Okay. And for students who are also Regional center Clients, does the Regional Center play a part at all in the IEP transition process?

Yes. So... Well, they should. I'm... They don't do as good of a job in my opinion generally as they could, but in the high school process, you can ask your Regional Center caseworker to attend your IEP meetings and they will... they will come, and then you can also ask them to start giving you information on transition to adult. They should be able to give you some resources, and this is something I recommend parents start doing when they're in high school, starting to talk to Regional Center about what after high school might look like based on your specific child's needs.

Right. And so if we want them to come to the IEP again, is that something that parents need to initiate or is that something...

Yes.

Don't even finish the question. Yes. So don't expect... Again, it's like... Well, is it... Is the expectation that the parent is going to be sort of quarterbacking this process, right?

Yes, yes. Which I'm sure surprises no one here listening. I mean, I have... Recently with SDP, I have heard of a couple of parents who have actually hired a manager type person to help manage all these moving parts, but generally, it's going to fall on the parents to make sure that all these pieces are in place.

And SDP is the Self-Determination Program, which is...

Yes, yes.

So for Regional Center client Self-Determination Program. Right. Okay. So there are... there could be other options there. And I know one really scary thing, if we're thinking about students with multiple disabilities who may receive a lot of really specific related services like deaf and hard of hearing or low vision or mobility, it can be really scary to wonder who is going to help support our kids when they leave high school, so does Disability Works California offer tailored support services for adults with, for example, low incidence disabilities, or is it something that Regional Center or Self-Determination Program would cover instead?

Yeah, no... Yes, DOR has specialized programs that work with the visually impaired and some of those other things, so when you reach out to DOR, you're going to want to let them know if you have what we call, right, in the IEP world is low incidence supports, which is... so deaf or hard of hearing blind or orthopedic or mobility issues. They do have counselors that specialize in, for example, blind or visually impaired and so on.

Okay. So definitely, again, in that conversation when you're talking to DOR, Disability Works California, let them know about your child. Just think about any question you can, right? I mean, because again, we all know the assumption shouldn't be, I'm going to get on the call and they're going to tell me absolutely everything, and maybe you will. Maybe you'll talk to somebody that will tell you absolutely everything, but again, probably a good idea just to bring all of those really specific questions and concerns you have. No question is irrelevant.

Some people... this is something that I hear a lot, Lisa. Some people say that our kids need a full triennial assessment in high school because some of these adult services require that data within three years. So is that true?

Yeah. So, a triennial assessment likely is already going to happen in high school because you're in high school four years and the triennials have to happen every three years, right? So mathematically you should be having one. Sometimes for certain college programs and certain services, they want a current neuro psych evaluation. One of those, for example, is the SAT, ACT. Those state tests, they will need a current... current assessment. I don't know if they accept... They generally will accept... And I'm answering it this way because of your question, right? So I don't know if they generally will accept the school psychological evaluation or if they’ll want something outside. I think if the school psychological evaluation is comprehensive enough, they will, so that might be one of the areas it's needed.

Okay. And let's talk about diplomas because we talked a lot about college, but first I want to get into some really specifics because there's four options for how our kids can finish high school, and three of those include different kinds of diplomas, so can you first tell us what these options are and how they can affect college choices?

Yeah. So there is, and I... there is... there is the diploma and there is the certificate of completion, and it's... those are the really... You said four, right? But they're... those are kind of the two options. I think when we say four, we're also talking about within the diploma box there's the A-G diploma and then there's a regular diploma of which I wish I had a better word for it, but it's the... The difference is an A-G... A-G courses are a series of courses that need to be taken in high school that if they... you successfully complete these courses, then you're eligible to be admitted straight into a CSU or a UC college without going to community college first. So kind of, sort of, they're... they're not honors classes, but I always kind of think of them that way. And then... and those A-G diplomas are typically city or county requirements, whereas the state requirement for a diploma is not the A-G. It's... it's classes that meet the standards instead where A-G goes above the standards. And so those are kind of the two diplomas. Right. And then the fourth being... Well, there's the A-G, the non A-G, then there's the new pathway to a diploma for students who take the CAA, the California Alternate Assessment. Well, that is a diploma, right?

Right. Yeah, that's what I mean. Just three categories of diplomas, right? Just because I'm going to ask some questions about each, so I just wanted to be really clear. And then the fourth being certificate of completion, so I just want to... because I'm going to ask, I really want to dig into the specifics of these because I'm talking to a lot of parents right now, when you're kind of thrown in to high school or that eighth grade, people start talking about it. It can be really confusing, and our kids can't afford for anyone to be confused about diplomas, so that's why I wanted... and I understand, and I love your answer, that there's a diploma and there's a certificate of completion, but then there's details about...

There's different... There's different pathways to that...

Exactly.

...to getting a diploma. There are different pathways to getting a diploma. Yes. S o I'd love to clarify... okay, the... you've already kind of talked about A-G versus non A-G. What questions does a parent need to ask their team right now to ensure that they understand if their child is receiving A-G credit?

That's the question, right? You want to... you want to make sure that you ask in the... in your IEP meeting or even just to start, right? If your IEP meeting is in April, then do an email to confirm what course of study your child is on. Are they doing the A-G requirements, or are they doing the standard diploma, or are they doing an alternative pathway to diploma, or are they on a certificate track, right? So you want to email and ask or ask in your IEP meeting. Now it should be documented clearly in your IEP. It can be hard to find. It can be buried in... in the document, but it should be clearly in the IEP.

And when is it too late or is it too late to start getting A-G credit?

So that's going to depend on the school and the district. Some schools are going to have opportunities, for example, if you didn't take the right A-G classes the first semester of ninth grade and that is the path that your child wants to be on, some schools will have opportunities to make up those classes over the summer or in later years. I even know of some children that have gone to the community college to take a class or two that would meet the requirements. So it's really... that's going to be a district or a school specific question.

Okay. And what... what is the biggest reason that a student might receive a diploma that is not A-G? And we're not talking about the student who's taking the alt pathway to a diploma. We'll talk about that in a minute. But why would a student who does not receive substantial modifications not get an A-G diploma?

I think some students may find the A-G classes are too hard for them, and they are struggling and so they do the standards based classes. I do want to clarify one thing though, because I'm being misleading. Some of our high schools don't have an option. You do A-G or you do the alternative pathway and there is nothing in between. Not all, but some. Sometimes some students who have disabilities are able to meet the state requirements for a diploma, but not the A-G, which is additionally... additional requirements, so that is something you might have to navigate with your specific school. If you find your child in ninth grade is not doing well on the A-G, but are able to meet the standards through a traditional pathway for a diploma. Then that's something that you might need to address in your IEP, if it's not, like you said, if that's not something that's allowed in your district, then that can be addressed in the IEP.

And so to clarify too, if a student receives modifications, are they ineligible for an A-G diploma?

Yes. Essentially yes. Any time you're modifying the course material, you know that means that they are not meeting basically the standards, right? They're having their work modified. And so they could potentially be a candidate for the alternative pathway to a diploma.

Right. But for accommodations, if you get accommodations, that should not exclude you from A-G.

Correct.

And if a student is in a separate special education class, does that eliminate them from A-G?

No. The placement that they're in is going to be separate from the curriculum. I know some of you just went, “That's all my school told me,” but it is... You can be in a special education classroom doing the general education curriculum, and even in... like, for example, LAUSD has something called AUT Core, which is an autism special day class where they're still working on the Common Core curriculum and on gen ed, so it can happen. And I'm asking all of these really specific questions, because I'm sure so many of us talk. I mean, every day I'll hear a parent of a different situation, and sometimes a school district will have these rules of, well, your kid is in... they're getting mild modifications or accommodations so they can't get A-G or your child is in a collab class or like a co-teaching class that's not an A-G class, when in reality that should be a gen ed class, so there's all these specific scenarios. And it's going to depend... the curriculum is not dictated by the placement, okay? So that is a correct statement, right? But if it... if the school put your child into a class where they're not teaching them the general education curriculum, then they're not being taught the general education curriculum, so you need to make sure that you understand what curriculum your child is receiving and what path that they're on, and they are required to make it very clear to you, so if you don't know, and this is, by the way, for high school and above. Middle school and below, it's a little bit different. If you don't know, you need to go through your IEP or reach out and find out from the school.

And so we've mentioned several times also this new pathway to a diploma for students who traditionally were not receiving a diploma. We're hearing from a lot of parents that their schools really don't know a lot about it, or they're receiving some misinformation or a lot of like, I'm not sure because this is new. So, Lisa, what do parents need to know?

So to be eligible for the alternative pathway to a diploma, your student needs to be eligible to take the alternative standardized testing, which is called the CAA, and they need to have a cognitive disability. Now, I know when I say this, sometimes people get worried, so I said eligible to take that assessment. If you opt your child out of standardized testing, that's okay. They still can do the alternative pathway. They just need to have that box checked on the IEP that they're eligible.

And I know this might seem like a silly question, but I'll explain why. What questions do parents need to be asking right now to ensure that their children can be eligible for that diploma?

So yeah. So starting... This starts to... and it's okay if you didn't do this in elementary school, but the earliest that you can establish this is sort of in third grade. Third grade is when the standardized assessments start, and so if they have made the child eligible for the CAA starting in third grade, then most likely that's going to carry through, and it can be done in fourth or fifth or sixth, so you didn't miss the window if your child's not in third grade. And really the difference in the pathways is that the alternative pathway requires the students to have an essential understanding of the standards, and I know we're going to post a link that explains what that is, but there are the standards that... the Common Core standards and the essential understandings basically boils it down to what the most important piece is, and that's a very lay person way of putting it. And, yeah...

And a specific question that Janet had too, where would it be in the IEP about the diploma? Where do parents need to double check?

Yeah, so there's going to be a page in your IEP that talks about promotion criteria, promotion standard. Some... it’s going to be depending on your district, right? But some... some will say... have checkboxes that says something like district goals, whatever. That's one place to look to get a clue. Another place to look is the page usually where your accommodations are listed. They're going to have a curriculum and it's going to say general education, or alternative, or modified, or something like that, so that's kind of a starting point to look.

Okay. And what scenarios can you see where a student receives a certificate of completion versus the new diploma?

Yeah. Good question. So some families are really more concerned with life skills than academics, and if that is the case, the student will likely be on a certificate completion because their goals will not be aligned with the standards.

And there... I think it’s really important for us to say, one of our favorite things to talk about, there are college programs, and these are growing for students with intellectual disabilities. They can be incredible programs that continue teaching learning and utilizing skills to plan for the future, so what do parents need to know about these opportunities, Lisa? Because, again, when you're walking in with your school teams, if this is something you want to talk about, it's still something that a lot of school teams don't really know much about, so what do parents need to know?

Well, the most important thing is thinkcollege.net. Thinkcollege.net is an amazing resource that lists out all of the programs that are available across the whole country for students with intellectual disability, and you can look there and look at some of the requirements that these programs have for students to be accepted into their programs, and hopefully scaffold, and you can, by the way, do this starting in elementary school. Scaffold your goals to meet some of those requirements, right? So, for example, some colleges want students to be able to... Well, I think all of them probably want students to be able to ask for help when needed, right? That's one of the things I've seen, that some colleges want students to be able to navigate campus independently. And so you can go to thinkcollege.net, look at what the requirements are to participate in these programs, and you can build your goals with that in mind with your school team. And even if your kid is seven and you have no idea if one of these programs are going to work, those goals or those requirements are going to be good for kids no matter what we do as an adult, so I would do it anyways. Definitely.

What...? Lisa, what is a Summary of Performance and why does it matter?

So a Summary of Performance is... it's a document, right, that the school must provide before the student leaves the school system, whether it's at 18 or 22, and it's going to summarize their academic and functional performance levels. It should explain the student's transition needs, and... as they're leaving the school system, what their transition needs are. It should be like all things that we talk about in this world, specific and meaningful, and it should be written so the student can understand it, and that is key. Your student needs to be able to understand what it says so they should not be... If your child has comprehension concerns or something like that, they need to make sure he can... he or she can understand it, and it should also make recommendations about how the student might be able to meet his or her post-secondary, so college or employment or independence, whatever they're working on, and it should be reviewed at that final IEP or transition meeting that you have.

Okay. And are we... Is this for families? Are we supposed to give this to somebody? What is... Where is this supposed to live? Or is there something we should be doing with this?

Well, I mean, since it's going to summarize their... in the school's viewpoint, the student’s academic and functional performance levels, right? And it's going to summarize... It's also going to... it could be helpful with your planning, right? I think that sometimes parents don't necessarily know all the things their child is doing at school. How many times have you gone to an IEP meeting and had the school say, “Well, they do that here,” and you’re like, “What?” Right? So I think it's helpful there. It can also be helpful if you're going to go to one of the thinkcollege.net programs or even if you're going to move into some sort of tailored day program or a day program or something like that with your student, this can be a helpful sort of synopsis of where they are at that moment from the school district's point of view.

Okay, great. I also wanted to let everybody know we have an article coming up in the next few weeks about college accommodations and how you can navigate that new landscape, so if you subscribe to our weekly newsletter, you're going to see it as soon as it's ready, so that's coming up. And I know we're running short on time, Lisa, but I definitely want to talk about the 18 to 22 program. Who is eligible and what should those programs entail?

Yeah, so hopefully all the school districts are learning about the alternative pathway to diploma, but I will tell you unequivocally, if your child earns a diploma through the alternative pathway, they are eligible to stay with the school district until age 22. That does not exit them. If a student with an IEP gets a diploma, they are exited, but if they take the alternative path, they are still eligible in California until age 22. Students who get the certificate of completion are also eligible until age 22 to go to the adult transition program, and most adult transition programs are very focused on life skills. I could do a whole hour just on this alone, so really quickly, the important piece to know is the adult transition program, all of the IEP rules that you have learned all of these years still apply. There is still a continuum of placements. LRE still applies. It is still individualized. So if your school district's answer is we have a single program, and that program is in this building over here, and this is what they do, and that doesn't fit your child's needs, you do have rights still to look at alternatives.

Great. Thank you. That's another thing that we are also... we're going to be working on articles about what those programs should look like. Like, what are some of the best in the state because there are some traditional ways, like you kind of mentioned, that some of these programs are run, and so what should that look like? What could it look like? So those are some other things that we're working on. So Lisa, really quickly, because this kind of dives more into public benefits outside of education, but I did want to address something. Just... what about educational rights at 18? How does this change things when our kids turn 18, and what do parents need to do?

Yeah. No, it's... This is a real concern for all parents or caregivers of kids with IEPs, whether they have a cognitive disability or not. What you need to know is when your child turns 18, the vast majority of schools are going to stop talking to you, and it will happen where the day before their birthday, you have full communication and the day of your birthday, nothing and they won't respond to you. Some schools will even go as far as to respond with, “We will not talk to you.” It's pretty bad. So what you need to do is obviously if you've chosen conservatorship or supported decision making or something like that, and you've already established that, you provide that to the school. You can also ask the school if they have any documentation, a form that your child can sign allowing you to maintain educational rights or be a part of decision making or whatever it is. And if they don't have forms, then you could probably just write something up with your child where the child says, “I want my mom or my dad or both or whatever involved in all educational decision making processes including IEPs,” and sign it. And they'll probably reply with, “Oh, we do have a form,” but this is something to keep an eye on and plan ahead for because it is quite sudden. Even if you have an IEP meeting scheduled after 18, they could try to not let you in. I've actually seen that happen, so it's something to think about and plan for. Plan ahead, yes. As is everything, planning as far ahead as possible, which we all know is easier said than done, but in these cases can have really serious consequences, so this is something that we definitely have to look ahead for.

Thank you, Lisa. I know there's a million other things that we can talk about, and I think we have to definitely have follow up events to this. I mean, it's a really overwhelming and emotional subject for lots of families. Could be scary, exciting, or both, to think about life after high school, so again, planning ahead. Essential. So just really quickly, like we discussed, many experts highly recommend that you consider starting the ITP process in eighth grade, but wherever you start or whenever you start, ensure that it's meaningful. Ensure that your child's IEP supports what's in that ITP. Make sure they're getting the diploma they should be getting, contact Disability Works California, the DOR, find out all of the options for your child. Don't wait for the school to initiate this. As with anything you do, like Lisa said, ensure that your planning is person-centered and built around what your child wants, needs, and loves. So Lisa, is there anything else you want to say? Because I know you have to jump off to the Undivided member Q&A.

Yeah, no, I was just... I think you've covered it. I think that planning is the most important piece here. Definitely. So thank you.

Thank you, Lisa, always for setting up our expectations around this planning. It is a meaty subject and we again touched on... touched a little on a lot, so thank you so much. So until then, stay connected with us. Join our parents only Facebook group and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube and LinkedIn. Thanks again to Lisa and to all of you. Our mission is to support you so your children can thrive and we want you to thrive too. We'll see you soon.